Beer hostage

[oregonduckman]

I feel like I am trying to win an AutoX blindfolded driving in reverse on this issue. As a club rookie I should probably just keep my big mouth shut but as a friend of mine recently said "Joe you are like a pit bull w/o lipstick once you set your mind to something". I do not doubt the veracity of everything Mark said but I think that this issue is too big to ignore. Sorry to be such a PITA.

[Gary Burch]

Blindfolded is a very accurate description, maybe blinders would be better. We make it all illegal, take personal responsibility out of the equation, and submit to a moral minority- Welcome to 1984

[LUCKY DAVE]

Wow, what a fight about beer, you'd think the club is serving hard booze to every thirteen year old that happens to walk by!
As a total non drinker, my attitude is: Bring on the beer! Enjoy yourselves after the races! Have five if you want, just get someone else to drive home.
Political correctness is for whiners driving a Toyota Pious, not for expert racers who back 'er in at 100mph for fun.


"We're racers, we're not like other people. We can't help it. Asking us to change is like asking someone to stop being Chinese.... you can't do it."
-Don Angel

[martinreinhardt]

I tried to ignore this thread, but can't

Oregonduckman could I ask you to add a signature to your postings, so we know who we are talking to?

Personally, I could care less if there is beer or not at our events, but traditionally we always had beer, water and sodas after the AX events without incidents. I understand your concern, but it's a free country and nobody is forcing beer down your throat, so If you don't like a beer get a water.

We have enough rules and restrictions as it is.

[MTrotter]

those of you that know me know that I'm far from politically correct and have very few filters. I try to be a "lurker" in forums and stick to reading the tech side of things. But seriously, is this thread still going on? Wow, im amazed. I visited my grama in a nursing home and found better things to argue about with a bunch of 90 year old ladies. Let me break down this thread for everyone that skips to the last post....

1. Greg wants beer faster!
2. Lorri and Monica want the trailer loaded faster.
3. Duck fan from oregon wants no beer.
4. Dan and Ron want everyone to get along.
5. Mark, Martin, Bob, Keith, Gary, Jackie and my self want beer.
6. John could care less if there is beer or not.
7. Lorri and Monica want the trailer loaded....
8. Mike seldom comes to autox's but as an air traffic controller... he drinks!
9. Chinese people apparently must stay chinese regardless of their wishes.
10. Mad Mothers Against Drunks don't like drinking and driving.

With all this said, is it really all that bad? I drink, my dad drinks, my mom drinks....
ill do it in front of a kid who will drink later in life... just don't get carried away with it and every thing is fine. Right?
Let adults be adults, let the government be the government. This is a democratic club, if more people wanted a booze free event it would happen. 1984 wont happen if we keep our heads about us and the TV off!
Having served one third of my life in the military and working another 5 in the Department of Defense, i'm not about to shun him for his ideals or morals, but there is a right way and a wrong way to approach things. With a club like this I must say this is the wrong way. A drafted letter to the BOD followed by attending a board meeting to present your point properly is the correct way. I would be more than happy to calm the mob of beer drinkers to allow you to finish your presentation. I would also vote as I feel best suits the club, autoxers and myself if it came to that. I must say, it seems like a losing battle. More so than the R-comp battle. If the rules say you can use R-comps... use them. If the law says you can drive with a tiny bit of alcohol in your system... then you can. With both issues, its your choice.

Morgan Trotter

[oregonduckman]

Hey Morgan,

I agree with your statement that this is probably not the right forum (no pun intended) to air my views on the subject but as I am sure you figured out by now I am not brightest light in the sky.

Having said that I will mention that I am going to make a presentation on the subject to the board at the next meeting in November along with Brian Pennings who besides being a fellow racer, is a local CHP officer who in addition to his normal patrol duties is also a community outreach officer, a driving instruction for the CHP, and a high performance driving instructor for the Ford Motor Company.

On that note I will cease making any more comments on this forum and drive off in my Brown Cayman to lick my wounds.

Thanks again for your comments Morgan.

Joe Parness

[Mike]

I visited my grama in a nursing home with a bunch of 90 year old ladies.
8. Mike seldom comes to autox's but as an air traffic controller... he drinks!
Morgan Trotter

Did you help your grama with her analog TV?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/36608/talkshow-with-spike-feresten-cable-psa#s
I'm since retired so my drinking and AX habits have changed.
Missed you guys at the Octoberfest in El Cajon.

[Dan Chambers]

Okay. One last rant:

?? What is so wrong about Personal Responsibility? In a society where "freedom" is the buzz-word, I find it amazing ... appalling, even ... that someone, anyone, would determine for me what the definition of Personal Responsibility is.

We are all adults, and know what obligation and responsibilities to society, children, spouses, friends, bosses, and neighbors we have. If we choose to set a high example by walking the straight and narrow path and it does not affect the well being of others, great. Walk the walk. If we choose to meander a bit from the straight and narrow path and it does not affect the well being of others, then meander about to your heart's content.

However: IMO, when we choose to dictate to others our ideas of right and wrong ... and it does directly effects the well being of others .... then I say STOP!

IMHO our ultimate responsibility to ourselves and each other is to take Personal Responsibility for our own personal actions, and leave others to choose their own level of personal responsibility. If I find someone else's level of personal responsibility is not in line with mine, I have the option of not including that person in my world. If I find someone infringing on my well-being .... well, they'll know quick enough. That's my personal responsibility to mysef, and others, IMO.

Fundemental laws protect us from actions that can harm us (DUI's, defamation, libal, traffic laws, contributing to the delinquency of minors, etc.). If those laws aren't to a standard that you subscribe to, you have the priviledge of effecting changes to the law. If you choose that route, that's part of your Personal Responsibility to affect change through the legislative process. It's all about Personal Responsibility in daily endeavers: P.R.I.D.E. (Yep, I borrowed that idea from the zssd.) I think we should all carry a sense of P.R.I.D.E with us each day.

Rant over.

DC

[KeithV]

If we choose to meander a bit from the straight and narrow path and it does not affect the well being of others, then meander about to your heart's content.

I'll drink to that!!!!

I know, I know ......... this is a serious issue to do with demonstrating adult behaviour and responsibility ..... which we should not joke about .................

........ which is exactly why I couldn't resist.

[Mark Garriott]

And now for something completely different:

http://www.dhadm.com/content/jack-in-th ... big-babies (click on the picture)

[RETII]

Wow I knew that the board meetings were rowdy but real live cops at a board meeting? What's next, speed limit signs on the Ax track and /or a little white sign advising of Photo Enforcement?

[gulf911]

Anybody care to guess what the CHP officer's position will be??

[RETII]

FELONY STOP position? I'd venture he'll be nice guy who wonders what the heck he got himself into for a friend, a feeling I'm sure board members have occasionally had. That being said I'd advise smiles all around just in case he runs everyones plates. Hope that the light hearted high jacking helps to get a reasonable perspective on this issue.

[oregonduckman]

Brian is a fellow racer who happens to be a CHP officer who has seen many avoidable tragedies. I have only met Brian once (this morning in fact) and he explained to me that it his intention to educate and share some of his experiences as a CHP Officer and talk about the Department's position on the subject of drinking and driving. Brian is very approachable and will be happy to talk about racing with anyone who shares his passion.

If anyone want to yell at me for raising the issue just PM me and I will respond with my phone number so you can do it real time.

[Jad]

Okay. One last rant:

?? What is so wrong about Personal Responsibility? In a society where "freedom" is the buzz-word, I find it amazing ... appalling, even ... that someone, anyone, would determine for me what the definition of Personal Responsibility is.

DC

Great theory, except that when you are wrong about "your personal responsibility" you don't just go kill yourself (which would be fine (not you personally, but the generic idiot)), but some innocent person or child can be killed by the drunk driver before the law catches up with them.

And if this club is full of such responsible people, how many of them have told you stories of driving well over 100+ on public roads, is that personal responisibility you agree with?

I think the beer thing is fine and I don't want to change it, but the more logical and responsible answer would be not to have it and I believe any arguement to the contrary is just to support your personal beliefs and actions, not an unbiased logical review of the facts and consequences to the club and members of one persons mistake (like some new member no one knows at his first event, drinking a six pack without anyone noticing).