Question for Autocrossers

[Curt]

Historically N/A.

[Pete Millikin]

If we are trying to grow the TT ranks we need a pathway that is clear to the autoxers. The DE/TT at the Q is the most accessable option which deals with the issues above. Tons of track time, reduced cost, and no travel time. The safety equipment cost/effort is also reasonably addressed.

We already schedule one Q TT annually but I think we can market the event more aggessively or possibly add another event. Having a ridealong program might broaden exposure.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention paid corner workers!

[John Straub]

I would like to do some TTs this year if I can swing it. But, for me it is always the question of how much money and time. When the autocross site goes away in two or three years, TTs and vintage races will be the only thing left to run my car in

[ajackson]

Can someone fill me in on the point of DE's? We have our entry level event (AX) which has timed runs at the end of the day. Why is there no timing suddenly at the DE level (then timing back in for TT)? As a complete novice, I love seeing my times just so I can measure improvement, try suggestions, etc. I know I would enjoy the QDE's more if there were timed runs at the end of the day.

I do see the point of it being easier to organize, don't have to worry about timing equipment setup, getting clean laps done, etc.

The cost of saftey equipment does vary wildly, but here is what I have spent so far (and I have been looking for good deals):

1. Fire extinguisher + mount: $15 at home depot
2. 5 point harnesses: $250 from dave turner
3. Helmet: Bell M2: $270 I think
4. Roll Bar (used): $100 (usually $350-$800)

That is already around $650 with tax and everything. I can see it easily surpasing $1000 for a basic setup. Once again, I am not saying that safety isn't important. It is just a large step up over a standard AX.

Would it be insanely irresponsible to let a stock car run (with helmet of course) for one or two DE's? I know the one day I went to Big Willow, I wasn't in much danger of crashing. I simply didn't have the confidence to drive the car anywhere near the limits.

[ttweed]

Why is there no timing suddenly at the DE level (then timing back in for TT)? As a complete novice, I love seeing my times just so I can measure improvement, try suggestions, etc.

You can just add a Hot Lap timer to your list of equipment (kaa-chinggg) and know exactly how you're doing on every lap of every session in a DE.

The timed runs at the end of the day in a TT are for competitive purposes, and the point of a DE is that you are not "racing", you are "learning". This point is especially important from an insurance standpoint. Official timing changes the nature of the event in the view of an insurance company.

TT

[Gary Burch]

Alan
The QDE's are intended to be an interim step between AX and TT events. The reason there is no offical timing at a QDE is, it is an "educational " event. You can familiarize yourself with other cars on the track and the speed and the continuous laps. Plus they are really fun and also close by.

Cars in stock classes do not need a roll bar. They do need a fire extinguisher and 5-points. 5-points are a major advantage at an AX by the way. You don't have to brace yourself with the steering wheel. And like Carl said most of the stuff you need can be taken out with no traces.

[Greg Phillips]

The cost of saftey equipment does vary wildly, but here is what I have spent so far (and I have been looking for good deals):

1. Fire extinguisher + mount: $15 at home depot
2. 5 point harnesses: $250 from dave turner
3. Helmet: Bell M2: $270 I think
4. Roll Bar (used): $100 (usually $350-$800)

That is already around $650 with tax and everything. I can see it easily surpasing $1000 for a basic setup. Once again, I am not saying that safety isn't important. It is just a large step up over a standard AX.

Would it be insanely irresponsible to let a stock car run (with helmet of course) for one or two DE's? I know the one day I went to Big Willow, I wasn't in much danger of crashing. I simply didn't have the confidence to drive the car anywhere near the limits.

Yes it does seem a big step, but in reality all you need are the 5 point harness, which can be obtained at Racer Wholesale for about $100 to $150 per seat and the fire extinguisher whch is cheap. Also helmets can be obtained in the $100-150 range.
You may need a harness bar to mount the harness, but a roll bar is not rquired unless a convertible.
As far as safety, yes if everyone took it easy the risks are less, but not everyone does, and even taking it easy you can reach 120 mph at Big Willow so safety is important
Should we allow stock and street stock cars to run with stock belts and a helmet? Has been debated, and presently the feeling is better safe than sorry. There are several groups that do allow that level of safety equipment for track days.
The QDE's do have the advantage of close proximity, but th track is more fun and going with PCASDR makes for an easy transition.
Greg

[paul-silver]

Also helmets can be obtained in the $100-150 range.

While a DOT or Snell M rated helmet might be available for that, Snell SA rated helmets are typically alot more. The cheapest ones I've seen are in the $250 to $300 range.

Paul

[Carl Scragg]

In fact, the club used to allow beginners to run 2 DE's with stock belts. Beginners are of course required to have an instructor ride with them. But today's P-cars are blazingly fast and even a conservative driver in a 996 or a 997 will get well into triple digits on most of the TT tracks, and our instructors were becomiing concerned for their own safety.

A time-trial is not just a big AX. When a car gets 2 wheels off the pavement, stuff can happen very quickly -- and there's not a TT driver out there who doesn't get 2 wheels off occasionally. So if I'm going to be strapped into the right-hand seat of a 996 turbo, I'd really like a good harness. Carl

[Greg Phillips]

[quote="paul-silver
While a DOT or Snell M rated helmet might be available for that, Snell SA rated helmets are typically alot more. The cheapest ones I've seen are in the $250 to $300 range.

Paul[/quote]

We don't require a SA helmet for our events, M is allowed, although SA is recommended.

Greg

[Jad]

While it won't help that many, as Carl said it is HP that is really scary, so we could consider a rule like POC and even a little of PCA, if your car is classed *** through IS? you can run as a student without the equipment, but JSS or higher needs the equipment? Would that be a worthwhile rule?

Funny how most people will happily spent $1k on tires or $500 on a clear bra, but won't spend $500 to possibly save their lives

[Curt]

if your car is classed *** through IS?

Could you try and watch you language Jad?

[paul-silver]

We don't require a SA helmet for our events, M is allowed, although SA is recommended.

Wow, even for DE and TT? I know M rated is OK for autoX, but I would have expected SA to be required for DE and TT events. Chicago region allows M for autoX but requires SA for track events.

Paul

[Greg Phillips]

Wow, even for DE and TT? I know M rated is OK for autoX, but I would have expected SA to be required for DE and TT events. Chicago region allows M for autoX but requires SA for track events.

Paul

We are not in Chicago anymore
Proabably not a huge diffrence between SA and M other than flammability standards for SA

Greg

[RickK]

While it won't help that many, as Carl said it is HP that is really scary, so we could consider a rule like POC and even a little of PCA, if your car is classed *** through IS? you can run as a student without the equipment, but JSS or higher needs the equipment? Would that be a worthwhile rule?

Interesting idea, but so many of the new drivers seem to come out with Boxters and 996s (even GT3s) that I don't think creating a split like this would really have any effect for most of them.