130 car cutoff for August 07 AX?

[ttweed]

So after all the drama, we had only 104 drivers (looking at BRI report)

Ya, with 125 pre-reg's and at least 2 walk-ons that we know of from their posts here, that means at least 23 people didn't show up after pre-reg'ing (probably more, since there were undoubtedly additional walk-ons). It looks like we could easily have 150+ people pre-register and not exceed 130 drivers if this trend is typical.

TT

[Bill]

Greg Phillips wrote:
Did not see all that many 912s listed either.

That may be, but notice that one of those 912's bettered the times of several 911's, carreras, a BoxterS, 944, 964,993, 928, etc. What they lacked in numbers they made up in performance......with a fraction of the hp of the others!

A comment about corner working: I heard on the loudspeaker a repeated request for drivers in the white run group to come to corner work. Several names were mentioned repeatedly, apparently with no response. Finally, a request was made for ANY volunteers. I was corner working for the timed runs of the white group and I was surprised to hear times announced for some of the same names that didn't show up to corner work. Is this another case where whining and complaining about the rules allows people to ignore them? I thought if you didn't show up for corner working you couldn't do the timed runs?

I agree with Jad about volunteering to instruct and then being given the privilege of doing 3 hours of corner working. A simple (but probably unpopular idea considering the frugal nature of the SDR members) is to charge $5 more for AXing and ask people to bring their own water. That additional money (assuming 100 car entries) would be enough to hire paid corner workers as the San Gabriel region does (cost is $100 per worker for the day). Problem solved.

Bill Ripka
911SC

[Don Middleton]

Greg Phillips wrote:
Did not see all that many 912s listed either.

That may be, but notice that one of those 912's bettered the times of several 911's, carreras, a BoxterS, 944, 964,993, 928, etc. What they lacked in numbers they made up in performance......with a fraction of the hp of the others!

A comment about corner working: I heard on the loudspeaker a repeated request for drivers in the white run group to come to corner work. Several names were mentioned repeatedly, apparently with no response. Finally, a request was made for ANY volunteers. I was corner working for the timed runs of the white group and I was surprised to hear times announced for some of the same names that didn't show up to corner work. Is this another case where whining and complaining about the rules allows people to ignore them? I thought if you didn't show up for corner working you couldn't do the timed runs?

I agree with Jad about volunteering to instruct and then being given the privilege of doing 3 hours of corner working. A simple (but probably unpopular idea considering the frugal nature of the SDR members) is to charge $5 more for AXing and ask people to bring their own water. That additional money (assuming 100 car entries) would be enough to hire paid corner workers as the San Gabriel region does (cost is $100 per worker for the day). Problem solved.

Bill, the problem for corner working was when "White" was to take the corners. Too many of the white driver-instructors were still out with their "Green" students and did not answer the call when "White" was being organized to take the corners. It was surprising that the run group rotation was set up to have Green corner working just before White. I thought that was never done to avoid such a problem. What compounded the issue was that Steve McKay's substitute wasn't as familiar with the instructors and was calling people like Bill Behun and Terry Barnum to instruct when they were out on the corners with their students. Bottom line, we had some sort of mix-up somewhere.

The double corner working issue for instructors is a major issue for both the instructors and the AX Chairs. The Board recognizes the problem and is working on a solution. There have been many suggestions, but all ideas have some drawbacks.

[martinreinhardt]

The double corner working issue for instructors is a major issue for both the instructors and the AX Chairs. The Board recognizes the problem and is working on a solution. There have been many suggestions, but all ideas have some drawbacks.

Yes, double corner working shifts are painful, but maybe with some basic corner working knowledge transfer by the CDIs to the students after the drivers meeting, we could spend less time working with the student and leave them once they get it.

For us in timing, you can add running timing all day long to the list, as we also corner-work and instruct most of the times.

[John Straub]

For us in timing, you can add running timing all day long to the list, as we also corner-work and instruct most of the times.

Martin...that's crazy!!!!

John

[CrashBrown]

The answers always seem to be easier than they are.

Bill, I think we might need more than 5 corner workers to pull off our AX's.

But it always impresses me to see how much effort of thought this club maintains.
That's what makes it so outstanding.

[LUCKY DAVE]

I agree with Jad that corner working TWICE is probably why most of the instructors-that-don't make that choice. Heroes like Jim Duncan that show up just to instruct (often taking multiple students ) are the exception, not the norm.
As all participants that are rated as "drivers" are deemed competent as corner workers, how about having them accompany students on their corner working stints, relieving instructors from having to corner work twice?
This is an all volunteer club, maybe some of the regular drivers can share the instructor's load a bit. [Could the X drivers who would instruct if it were "legal" help here, Is that allowed by the Gods at PCA National?]
I realize this proposal won't be popular with some drivers, but corner working twice and instructing is clearly unpopular with the instructor corps.

[gulf911]

Is there some mathematical error? At 100 cars , almost 17 people per run group. 6 Groups. was there 9 corners last event? Let say 10.
that leaves over 6 people per stint 'extra' , totaling 36 extra people for the day.
Sure , some will have a valid issue but 36 people above whats needed and we run short?

[jenniferreinhardt]

[/quote]So after all the drama, we had only 104 drivers (looking at BRI report)
Did not see all that many 912s listed either.
Greg[/quote]

I was speaking with another Instructor who offered their take on the 130 cut-off. That is to say that since we imposed this deadline, this may actually hurt the club because people may just register to secure their spot when they most likely won't go! Then, the people who wait too long and see that they possible won't be able to get in on the morning of the AX, may just blow it off, thus diminishing the walk ups.

Sounds highly plausible!!

We don't need a limit on Cars, JUST X-Cars which Greg proposed at the July Board meeting. It was not made a motion, right Greg?

Then, we nice registration people can create an X-Car list and notify them if our limit has been reached ahead of the AX.

[Don Middleton]

For us in timing, you can add running timing all day long to the list, as we also corner-work and instruct most of the times.

Wow, Martin, I had forgotten about that the two years I worked Timing, I was also instructing. For added excitement, that was when Ricki was part of the timing crew! The whole thing was completely nuts! That said, I also agree that we need some structure to the call outs on cones. During timed runs, the cone-calls have to be more structured and consistent for the Timing crew to get the job done.

No wonder I get a little krick in my neck now when someone mentions timing or instructing.

[Bill]

CrashBrown wrote:
The answers always seem to be easier than they are.

Bill, I think we might need more than 5 corner workers to pull off our AX's.

Ah...A common error. Apparently the thought is that the ice, water, and drinks are free. Unfortunately, as Kim Crosser pointed out in the
X-car discussion,

Kim Crosser wrote in the X-car discussion on June 5:
Financial: The cost to run an AX at the stadium begins with the fixed costs - $2000 for stadium rental, $230 (or so) for port-a-potties, $100-150 for ice, $300-400 for water/soda/other,

So, if one does the addition, $500 from increasing the fee ($55 instead of $50), $150 for ice, and $400 for water/soda/other, the total comes out to be $1050. This would be enough for 10 paid corner workers, not 5, with $50 left over. So sometimes the answers ARE easy if you do the math .

-Bill

[jenniferreinhardt]

Bill, this would be ideal, but it seems to be the perpetual debate that never changes anything. Perhaps a CDI can jump in here who has hired corner workers for our stadium DEs, did we also have to pay for hotel rooms/food for these folks?

Dave, if we ask the Drivers to go out with the students to corner work and they corner work twice, we just may chase them away. They may not be fully rooted in the club yet, and may say forget it, I'm not coming back. I ran in to a guy that AX'd with us a few times and I asked him why he doesn't come out anymore. He said he hates picking up the cones... so there's another angle.

Martin, I agree we need to keep up with the knowledge transfer from Chair to Chair, also to the participants. Yesterday, Leigh did a great job of explaining how to call in cones correctly. We have been having some problems with that, no?

Dan, the heavy workload day-of volunteers, who often instruct too, are given first priority to not corner work. But, I really don't know what happened yesterday. I'm just going to stay out with my student for max 30 minutes, and have them prove to me they hustle from fast cars and call in cones right - along with some technique speak. They are adults, and can work it out. Although, there may be the occasional student who is just not confident enough to go it alone.

DQ, the timing and scoring is Tom Brown's creation and he has been at the Parade. I think he will be getting the computer from me to make a separate X-Car Top 10 listing before the next event. I thought he already changed the total participant results.

Keep the opinions coming, we gotta keep our Board Members busy

[Carl Scragg]

Working from my memory of running DE's, I believe that it is possible to get corner workers for about $1000/day. But since they are working a full day, we need to shut down the track for lunch breaks and potty breaks. There have also been more than a few problems with paid corner workers (not exactly a career track job). But it's still worth considering. Carl

[gocart]

A couple of thoughts on corner working.

There are really two types of corner working. There is a lot to learn watching the other cars run the course and can be a learning experience. I wouldn't have mind corner working, but we were a little short handed at start.

Corner working during timed runs is a lot different than during the practice sessions. It requires a lot more concentration, energy and experience. I'm not sure that should make a difference in scheduling, but it is a thought.

What about some sort of incentive, for those who do clean up or other volenteer work? You pay the same fee if you leave after your timed run or if you stay and help pick up. I know, have beer on the truck for the corner workers who pick up cones!

Maybe we should use the schedules that "work" better. It seems the schedule we used yesterday had some issues. Do we really need to use it again?

[Don Middleton]

... paid corner workers...it's still worth considering....

Good to hear, Carl. In that case, we can probably use paid workers without shutting down the track. I don't think it would be difficult to have a "relief" group of drivers for a run group in the morning and afternoon, as well a couple of run groups in the lunch hour. Working corners for one 20-30 run group is not bad.