"Taste of the Track" at AX events?

[gulf911]

Why $50 or $100 for de or tt? What is the rational behind this arbitrary number? The club cost is $10 for insurance wristband if that. Again, I'll reiterate the perception of nickle and diming. A 500 to 1000% margin is so far out of line its ridiculous. Perhaps the driver actually footing the cost of consumables and giving the rides should get the extra$.

Excellent point Peter. And to be honest I have always had a big problem with paying the $10 gate fee to the track that has charged thousands to us already, that is truly ridiculous and nickle and diming. $30 at a TT or DE for tott should be more than enough. I don't know anybody that would pay a $100 fee for a ride. I see the Porsche tax everywhere I go , but dont expect to see it at a club event.

Oh, and Peter, you never offered a ride in your car, because I most certainly would have jumped at the chance.

[SDGT3]

Any time, any track, any where big boy... just jump in. I missed driving with you this year. I made all the TT except for the last one because of mechanical issues.

[Kim Crosser]

Please keep in mind that the Track Tour/Taste of the Track rules are defined by PCA National, not PCA/SDR.

Also, if an event is a Zone 8 event, PCA/SDR has to pay Zone 8 a fixed fee for each Participant, so there is both the insurance AND the Zone 8 fee to consider. Unless the Zone 8 rules get changed, the Zone 8 fee would be the same for a TotT Participant as for a regular driver. I believe that charging a $10 TotT fee at a Zone 8 AX event would mean that PCA/SDR would actually be subsidizing each person that did the TotT...

[Don Middleton]

...if an event is a Zone 8 event, PCA/SDR has to pay Zone 8 a fixed fee for each Participant, so there is both the insurance AND the Zone 8 fee to consider.

So, anyone know what the insurance fees are? What would it take for the club to break even? Last I recall, Zone 8 was getting a flat $500 on their sanctioned AX events. If that is the case, then the Zone is a non-issue. Who remembers how we pay for the insurance? I don't recall it being on a per-participant basis.

[Don Middleton]

...if an event is a Zone 8 event, PCA/SDR has to pay Zone 8 a fixed fee for each Participant, so there is both the insurance AND the Zone 8 fee to consider.

So, anyone know what the insurance fees are? What would it take for the club to break even? Last I recall, Zone 8 was getting a flat $500 on their sanctioned AX events. If that is the case, then the Zone is a non-issue. Who remembers how we pay for the insurance? I don't recall it being on a per-participant basis.

Kim, it appears that the Zone takes $6/AX on their sanctioned events. But, there is no per-participant fee from National for AX insurance. Do you agree?

[Mmagus]

Maybe we should contact the Patomac Region and ask how they did their Military Ride Along day as listed in the current Panorama.

[MR LIPP]

We have already done military ride alongs:

They showed up, signed waiver, no charge and got into the cars of instructors

[gulf911]

Why is it there are different answers from different people?? I would be surprised if the ax insurance is a per person deal.
Don , is it $6 per person for Zone 8 events? Thats easy enough as we dont have hardly any Zone 8 events, no ride alongs at zone 8 events.
Which also means if you did, the $10 would cover it wouldn't it Kim?

[SDGT3]

From what I know of the DE program, there are certain parameters and cut offs as it relates to the number of participants and wrist bands used at a DE. I don't recall exactly what it is, but as an example, up to 100 wrist bands, the insurance for the "EVENT" is $450. After 100 wrist bands its $600.

When we first started putting on the DEs, we were very conscience of the number of entries, instructors, observers etc. as going over the threshold would trigger a higher cost. However, we typically did not go over 100, especially for the parking lot DEs at Qualcomm. I believe the only time we did go over 100 was for the Coronado SPeedFest.

Tom G our insurance guru would be able to give the exact figures on cost and cut off numbers.

[Mmagus]

We have already done military ride alongs:

They showed up, signed waiver, no charge and got into the cars of instructors

Cool, I am all for it. That was "before my time" as I am so new.

But I believe it makes my point; If we did it for a well deserving group like out vets, then either we just tossed all the insurance regs and club rules out the window for that day...OR...there must be a (hopefully simple) way to have ride-along-for-fun events/alowances.

[SDGT3]

The event was for disabled vets and was organized by Martin in either '08 or '09. I don't think there was much discussion about wristbands, but waivers were signed.

[Bill Behun]

I mentioned before I like the idea of ride alongs for many of the reasons mentioned already.

Though I've only been doing the "driving thing" for 8 years, I realized yesterday the idea was planted about 25+ years ago when I was invited by a co-worker to one of the SCCA autocrosses at the stadium for a ride in a tricked out Rabbit. I couldn't believe a car could be driven like that and stay within the cones!

Anyway, as a board member for this year and next, I'll start looking into all of this and see what we need to do to make this happen.

[Erik K]

So can I ask, Jackie/Kim? Were are we at with this? I have a friend/potential new member who is very interested in coming down this sunday to get some passenger laps with me. In previous posts it was stated that that they would need to attend drivers meeting, sign waiver, $ 10-25 fee. Just want to know so I can give my friend the heads up, or if the club will even be permitting this on 11/7/10.

[Kim Crosser]

Let's try to keep "Zone 8 Competitive Driving Events" separate from Tours. This discussion is really about AX/DE/TT events, which are Competitive Driving Events and have very different insurance and other rules about who can participate. The back-country drives with the vets held in the past years have been "Tours" - not competitive driving events (even if there were a few people who thought otherwise... ).

First - caveat - I am no longer the Treasurer, and the following rates may have changed...

Zone 8 charges a flat fee of $6 per Participant when we host a Zone 8 event. It doesn't matter whether the Participant is an instructor, driver, or Taste of Track rider - if they are registered as a Participant (per National rules), they would be subject to the Zone 8 fee. If we do TotT at both Region and Zone 8 events, we would either need to charge a Zone 8 surcharge, or make the base fee high enough to cover both types.

Insurance: There is no per-event insurance requirement for AX events - these are covered under PCA National's "blanket" coverage for all the Clubs. DE and TT events have different insurance premiums based on the number of Participants.
1-49 Participants = $300
50-99 Participants = $450
100+ Participants = $600
In the worst case, if you had 99 drivers at a DE and added one TotT rider, that additional rider would cost PCA/SDR $150 in additional insurance premiums.

The Zone 8 rules are very clear as to what is allowed in the Track Tour and Taste of the Track programs. However (as I stated in my first post here), the Taste of the Track program is really targeted towards allowing someone to experience a full day attendance and participation in a DE/TT event, except for actually driving their car.

If you read the SDR "Standing Rules", there are no real exceptions to the Zone 8/National regulations in this area. HOWEVER, I would think that we *could* entertain a change to the Standing Rules to specifically address a modified "taste of the AX track".

Also, with advance notice, the Board does have the ability to waive some requirements on a per-event basis, although waiving requirements that are tied to insurance coverage stipulations can be very risky. If there were a compelling reason to allow certain qualified individuals to participate in a limited ride-along at an event (e.g., military service members at Coronado), the Board can allow the Event Chairs to make some exceptions.

Personally, I think the spirit of the Taste of the Track program should always be maintained - this is intended for those people who are considering becoming full-fledged competitive event drivers and want to see what is involved. Taste of the Track should NOT become a means of selling rides to make money, or just impressing your friends and neighbors with "thrill rides".

[Kim Crosser]

So can I ask, Jackie/Kim? Were are we at with this? I have a friend/potential new member who is very interested in coming down this sunday to get some passenger laps with me. In previous posts it was stated that that they would need to attend drivers meeting, sign waiver, $ 10-25 fee. Just want to know so I can give my friend the heads up, or if the club will even be permitting this on 11/7/10.

This would seem to me to be the perfect "Taste of the Track" situation. Potential new member, attend the full day, do the track walk, attend the drivers' meeting, sign the waiver, register for the event, pay a fee (doesn't have to be the full AX fee), and ride with instructors. As far as the fee amount, that needs to be defined by the Board/Event Chairs.
I would strongly support this as a TotT situation...