Approved Rule Proposals for 2011

[Otto]

Oh yeah...I am just loving these new classes... Ax is one thing, cause Peter knows I will just take off my wipers.. but TT as well? all you CC7's prepare to get your a$$ handed to you by Peter and Mike Avitt...

996 GT3's in CC7 Dan? No way, you must mean CC6 and that if they run as they have been running in our TTs so far. That is my class as well and I am shaking in my boots already at the thought of facing them Under the new Rules, our old, heavily-modified cars will have an uphill battle against the new crop of powerful Porsches that do not need many modifications to be fast.

[gulf911]

996 GT3's in CC7 Dan? No way, you must mean CC6 and that if they run as they have been running in our TTs so far. That is my class as well and I am shaking in my boots already at the thought of facing them Under the new Rules, our old, heavily-modified cars will have an uphill battle against the new crop of powerful Porsches that do not need many modifications to be fast.

You hear that Peter?? CC6! oh , sorry Otto..

I know that GGR uses different base point and mod point levels for AX and TT. We may want to consider that as well.

ummm... so you adopted GGR classing but only for AX...and apply it to AX and TT where they don't?. Can someone explain this to me?
I am just curious why you would think the GGR classing is great for AX , but they didn't know what they were doing for TT.. just sayin..

[gocart]

At what class will a driving suit be required? Harnesses?

[JERRY B]

Marie for ax chair

[SDGT3]

Otto, what are you worried about? We were separated by a fraction of a second for TTOD at Spring Mt. Don't you think that is close competition? In fact, you're always challenging for TTOD, I would think that is exactly what you want, isn't it?

I added up my points which includes 20 extra points for a non stock rear wing that has no performance advantage (I just like the way the wing looks on the car) and came up with CC7 points. I'm kind of bummed about this too because some of the guys in GT3 I've been competing against for the past few years are going to be bumped up to CC6 because they have non stock shock and spring rates and/or adjustables. My car is stock with the exception of the type of tires I use so that's why I'm in CC7.

Up until this point, all the 996 GT3, 997 GT3 and 997 GT3RS (and GT2s but only Steve Eguina has one) have been playing together. This new system will split the GT3's up.

Perhaps if I remove my windshield wipers, I can be bumped into CC6? Gotta ask Dan A about that move...

It doesn't matter anyway, I've been inspired by the Flat Out videos and although, it's not faded red, almost orange, I bought a 944 Spec race car and I'm going to club race it. No need for wings, just the wind at my back and pray to hit the triple digits

[mrondeau]

At what class will a driving suit be required? Harnesses?

2012 Safety Equipment Rules:
The following summarizes the safety equipment that is required for Porsches as they pass up through the classes due to modification points (not total points, do not include base points):
Classes SS1-12 & CC1-16:
<300 Points: TT/DE: Roll bar or cage is required for open cars except Boxster, 996 & 997 Cabriolet
All Events: Helmet
Factory harnesses
Open-ended steel lug nuts are required for cars with wheel spacers
Classes CC1-16 only:

301+ Points: TT/DE: Fire extinguisher required
5 or 6 point harnesses are required
Roll bar or cage is required for Boxster, 996 & 997 Cabriolet

501+ Points: TT/DE: Roll bar or cage is required for all cars
All Events: Open-ended steel lug nuts are required for all cars

601+ Points: TT/DE: Driving suits, gloves, socks and boots are required for all cars

[SDGT3]

At what class will a driving suit be required? Harnesses?

601+ Points: TT/DE: Driving suits, gloves, socks and boots are required for all cars

This is significant and I'd betting a lot of people did not know that. So those with SS or S cars need to bring a suit if they want to drive now! Got a feeling this is going to catch a lot of people out

[mrondeau]

I think this is absolute insanity, to try to changeover a class system, to use even for comparison, or, for certain events and not others, in 2011. Here we are a week out from Thanksgiving, then Christmas in another month, who has time for all this right now?!?!?!

I agree this should have been voted on. Are we that hard up for trophy costs that we need less classes?!?!?

Why not keep it all the same as 2010, for everything, then whoever wants can calculate the equivalent CCCC whatever the hell it is, off line, and not put it on the reg team or anyone else DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON!!!!!

It was voted on. The presidents voted on it based on the Zone rules committee suggestions and the members comments. These rules proposals have been discussed since last spring, revised and discussed again since October 1st. I believe that SDR was the only region to send in any comments regarding this rules proposal (Tom B., correct me if I'm wrong). Changes in the rules always seem to catch some members unaware.
I believe that Tom is working on changing the classifications in MSR and classifying most cars is pretty easy. I don't believe that the spec classes are affected at all by this as they run under their own rule set (i.e. 944 Spec, Boxster Spec, etc.).

We have to start with a baseline so that we can adjust from there. It's not perfect, but neither is our current system. I expect that next year, there will be lots of input from drivers regarding this system.

[c4s4pcs]

Note that safety requirements are based on modification points, not total points.

[mrondeau]

At what class will a driving suit be required? Harnesses?

601+ Points: TT/DE: Driving suits, gloves, socks and boots are required for all cars

This is significant and I'd betting a lot of people did not know that. So those with SS or S cars need to bring a suit if they want to drive now! Got a feeling this is going to catch a lot of people out

Peter, Note that it is the modification points that count. (not total points, do not include base points): You can have an 800 point car, but if the base points are 550, you only have 250 mod points.

[SDGT3]

Ah, that clarifies it. Thanks.

[pdy]

At what class will a driving suit be required? Harnesses?

601+ Points: TT/DE: Driving suits, gloves, socks and boots are required for all cars

This is significant and I'd betting a lot of people did not know that. So those with SS or S cars need to bring a suit if they want to drive now! Got a feeling this is going to catch a lot of people out

That's 601 MODIFICATION points, not total.

An I'm sure you will see triple digits.....

in your tire budget!

[Otto]

Otto, what are you worried about? We were separated by a fraction of a second for TTOD at Spring Mt. Don't you think that is close competition? In fact, you're always challenging for TTOD, I would think that is exactly what you want, isn't it?

I added up my points which includes 20 extra points for a non stock rear wing that has no performance advantage (I just like the way the wing looks on the car) and came up with CC7 points. I'm kind of bummed about this too because some of the guys in GT3 I've been competing against for the past few years are going to be bumped up to CC6 because they have non stock shock and spring rates and/or adjustables. My car is stock with the exception of the type of tires I use so that's why I'm in CC7.

Up until this point, all the 996 GT3, 997 GT3 and 997 GT3RS (and GT2s but only Steve Eguina has one) have been playing together. This new system will split the GT3's up.

Perhaps if I remove my windshield wipers, I can be bumped into CC6? Gotta ask Dan A about that move...

Yes, you are right Peter, I do want to compete with you 996 GT3 guys as we have been doing all along even though my car is massively underpowered as compared to the 996 GT3. Believe my wish and your wish to compete with your fellow 996 GT3 drivers and me will come true. Just check this math regarding points for your car under the new Rules as I see them:

996 GT3 Base Points 530 points
Tire-Width Points (based on Stock-Sizes 235/295) 120 points
Race Tires (Hoosiers) 60 points
Non-Stock Wing 20 points
Limited-Slip Diff 20 points

Total 750 points

You said the Springs you use are Stock? Are you sure? Normally that is one modification all 996 GT3's make right away. What size tires are you running? Anyway, just the same, you are clearly in CC6 unless I am missing something. It is going to be an interesting year

[tb911]

The only difference in base points for the GGR system is the mid-engine cars. They are not penalized the 25 points for TT. I guess they think being mid-engined only helps in AX
As for modification points, yes they have some differences there -- but we are not using theirs. We are using our modification points, and have been for years, with no difference between AX & TT. If that doesn't work, it needs to be changed in the current rules too.

Anyway, experience will tell us if we need to change anything over time. Which is the goal of starting to use the system sooner.

Any speaking of that -- it was a suggestion to use it next year, not a mandate.

[SDGT3]

Otto, you blew the joke!! I wanted Dan A. to lose a gasket when I mentioned Hello, CC7!!! I know it shouldn't be doing this to the elders, but it's fun to see Dan. A. get so wound up

Regarding the springs/shocks, I've resisted the temptation of doing that like everyone else did with a GT3. The car is great on the street and we still enjoy going out to dinner with it and driving it to and from the track. If the springs and shocks were revalved it would faster on track, but not nearly as enjoyable on the street.

Happy Thanksgiving Dan. Still missed running with you this year.

PS: The 944 spec car came with no windshield wipers. I'm gunning for ya