"KP due to 6 insignificant points"

[kary]

Jad,

Could not help but notice in your signature this caption:

"KP due to 6 insignificant points"

I hear statements like this often and I believe more often than not these statements are correct. Which leads me back to the discussion that died some time ago about classifications based upon significant factors like weight and horsepower. While there will always be loop holes in any system I still feel ours is really missing the mark on so many levels.

Anyone interested in working together to create something that would work?

[Jad]

Your are probably right on the loopholes, but my post was a joke and it looks like I will be heading to Willow with a KI car. It certainly isn't built to maximize its KI potential, but hard to argue for KP any more, let alone KS .

KI should be fun this year with Martin, Kris, my dad and I joining Jack and Ethan as far as I know thus far.

[kurquhart]

A few opinions:
1. The current stock and street stock classes work fairly well, and have a valid, important place in our club.
2. A weight/horsepower ratio would probably be more applicable from Improved on up, where a good chassis is assumed.
3. Prepared is a messy middle ground where level of suspension/tires/brakes/gearing potential should probably play a role.

[Mike]

Hi Kary.
I think PCA has too many classes.
I doubt PCA is interested in adding more classes.

1. My concern is not the current points per mod system, but the points per class.

While most classes have a range of a minimum of 8 points to a maximum of 19 points it seems overly generous that AR1 has a range of 39 points.

That same 39 point range on the front side of the point system is the difference between a stock Porsche and a max pointed improved car. Over this 39 point range the prepared classes help separate the stock and improved classes.

The AR1 range is from 55 to 94 points.
Then AR2 kicks in an astronomical 95 points, 95 points seems unreachable?
I like the AR2 concept but can it be made meaningful?

2. I think the 3.6 conversion cars are mis-classed. The 3.6 cars seem overpowered for AM and underpowered in the 94 point AR1 class.
In the modified classes common engine transplants and classes not requiring expensive highly modified engines should be encouraged.

3. In the modified classes should we consider only power, wieght and tire size/type?

I'd be interested in your broad sweeping suggestions (ex my #3), although I see PCA rules makers more interested in fine tuning than reinventing our system.

Best,
MG

[martinreinhardt]

Your are probably right on the loopholes, but my post was a joke and it looks like I will be heading to Willow with a KI car. It certainly isn't built to maximize its KI potential, but hard to argue for KP any more, let alone KS .

KI should be fun this year with Martin, Kris, my dad and I joining Jack and Ethan as far as I know thus far.

It will be a fun year. But, I have a feeling that with 17 points to go and all these fast guys in KI, it could be another expensive year

[Curt]

It will be a fun year. But, I have a feeling that with 17 points to go and all these fast guys in KI, it could be another expensive year

It's always an expensive year. What I figured out about three years ago is that for me, even with my AM class car, I'm not having any more fun than I was when I was in FSS or GS. It's just way more expensive to try and be competitive. I guess that is part of the fun of this hobby..... for the shops and the parts places!

[Tim Comeau]

Curt,
So right........
944 spec. Once it's built, you can't really throw any more money at it to make it faster!
Part of the fun of racing our cars is the development-the build up- but, man, can it get expensive when there's no ceiling.

If anybody is interested I'll share my vision of a spec 911 class. It's for those who want to drive a 911, but who also want to stay away from the one-up-man-ship spending wars.

[Curt]

Curt,
So right........
944 spec. Once it's built, you can't really throw any more money at it to make it faster!
Part of the fun of racing our cars is the development-the build up- but, man, can it get expensive when there's no ceiling.

If anybody is interested I'll share my vision of a spec 911 class. It's for those who want to drive a 911, but who also want to stay away from the one-up-man-ship spending wars.

Tim,
I like the idea of Spec classes quite a bit. I have looked at Spec 944, Spec Miata and Spec e30. Your 944 really opened my eyes when I rode with you at that Drivers Ed.

[Tim Comeau]

Yes, the 944's are a blast!
Wasn't that the DE where I was riding with you in your 911? I felt so bad that I couldn't give you input as we were driving! I believe that's when I bought the Nady intercom system, which you're welcome to borrow anytime. It's a fantastic addition when I'm coaching other drivers.

[Dan Chambers]

I'm not having any more fun than I was when I was in FSS or GS.

Curt: I think you're absolutely right. Maybe I was lucky to get some quick insight, or maybe it's been all the fantastic support of great mentors, but I have come full circle .... now getting ready to "start fresh" with an "SS" class car.

Anybody interested in a really nice GP car? Cheaper than a spec racer; almost as fast, lots and lots of goodies thrown in. Last Dieter's ticket quoted: "This car needs nothing." This is no joke.

[kary]

I'm not having any more fun than I was when I was in FSS or GS.

Curt: I think you're absolutely right. Maybe I was lucky to get some quick insight, or maybe it's been all the fantastic support of great mentors, but I have come full circle .... now getting ready to "start fresh" with an "SS" class car.

Anybody interested in a really nice GP car? Cheaper than a spec racer; almost as fast, lots and lots of goodies thrown in. Last Dieter's ticket quoted: "This car needs nothing." This is no joke.

What would it take to be a 944 spec car?

[Dan Chambers]

Kary:

Gut interior (keep the Recaro Speed seat, it's good), some minor upgrades to suspension, 15" spec OEM wheels/tires, swap out current 944S2 Trans for stock trans (it's a "gearing" thing), replace bumpers (I still have 'em), Roll-bar/cage, a few odds and ends. That's about it.

The car currently has new and revalved shocks, 200# front springs with lowering of 1.75" (Spec cars run up to 375# springs), 935 bump-steer kit, LSD, 2004 engine rod-bearing job, 2006 engine head/valves/gasket job, new P. steering rack, many many other goodies. She's tight.

Some spec-drivers go all out with mono-ball this and camber-plate that, but this car would do well with just a few extra goodies, and a bit of weight loss. At the last A-X I came in 2nd against the spec cars pulling all the extra weight!

Tim Comeau is the man to talk to about this.

[Steve Grosekemper]

I think this is an interesting topic about less being more...
Before the 914, I use to run Stock or S/S in whatever I happen to own at the time lots of 944's, 911SC, 914 2.0L...

I always had a great time as you could drive the wheels off a stock car without scaring yourself to death. It is all about driver input because the car is just whatever the car is.

Now 944 spec... I have driven several and found them each to be very different. Tim's car was a blast at an AX rental session, but the session I got in the Sharp's red spec at BW with worn out RA-1's was one of the best session's I can remember in recent history. I couldn't get the stupid grin off my face. (Perfect car/track match)
I think the key is the power/grip/brakes/weight are all so perfectly balanced. More of anything would upset the formula.
If I knew Benbow was selling before Sharp's I would have written him a check on the spot.

But I think building a car from scratch like the Sharp's costs more than anyone is admitting. My suggestion is to buy one from someone who has decided to go a bunch faster... Like Chuck did.

[gulf911]

If you are talking AX I might agree somewhat that an S or SS car can be as fun, to a point , however , for TT's I would say to Curt put it to the test and run your FS car at a TT and let me know if you feel the same way.

[Steve Grosekemper]

If you are talking AX I might agree somewhat that an S or SS car can be as fun, to a point , however , for TT's I would say to Curt put it to the test and run your FS car at a TT and let me know if you feel the same way.

Valid point, but can I have Carl Scragg's JS Carrera or Team Young's IS 911SC for this comparison?