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[gulf911]

[993Panzer]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Greg Phillips]

OK, so who is going to Streets?
How about California Speedway?
Who will take TTOD and what will their times be?
Who will come out on top of KI? Front engine, rear or mid? Water or air-cooled?

Is that enough to get started?
Greg

If not, this is the PCA recommended DE harness standard for 2008:

Harness Systems:
If the participant chooses to install a 5/6 point driving harness ( four point systems are not safe and therefore not allowed) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include a antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM. Due to UV degradation and wear the harness webbing must be replaced every five years.

[Steve Grosekemper]

So you either run a stock car with stock seats and 3-point belts or racing seats 5/6-points and a rollbar/cage (strongly recommended)

Where is the middle ground?
Kind of encourages you not to put in any additional safety devices if you are not going to go full race; doesn't it?

Me...I'll be at all the TT's... (in one Porsche of another)
Streets should be interesting... more about handling than power, unlike WSIR.

Remember to sign up for streets and Z8SF...Don't want to get left out of the fun...
Dan A, is that tranny done yet?

[Tawfik]

It s also a bit confusing that it is acceptable to run stock belts no matter how old they are (ie: they could be on a > 30 years old 914 running in S or SS) but a harness that is 5 years and a few months is not acceptable.
What s the reasonning behind this?

[993Panzer]

I thought the new rule was a little curious. I guess they're following the rule that says if you're going to go, go big or stay home. I know I wouldn't want to instruct someone in a 3 point system at a big track whether the belts are 30 years old or 3 months old. Doing 150 MPH in a 3 point system seems a little crazy to me. Maybe I did the safety thing for too many years.

On another note I'm registered for Streets and Fontana. I like the technical aspect of Streets and the California Speedway is a favorite of mine but I'm not sure why. Maybe going flat out through 1 and 2 or the infield but I really like it. I really enjoy the braking into turn 3.

As far as TTOD it depends on who will show up and be running for timed runs. KI will be enjoyable to watch. I hope Jae Lee can have his car repaired in time for both events.

[ttweed]

It's also a bit confusing that it is acceptable to run stock belts no matter how old they are (ie: they could be on a > 30 years old 914 running in S or SS)

Actually, this is not strictly true. The current rules state: "Cars that do not have 5 or 6 point harnesses must have fully functional factory restraint systems. In Time Trials and DE, factory belts more than 20 years old, or visibly frayed or damaged at any age, must be replaced with new belts."

I understand your point, though, that the "acceptable life cycle" of factory restraints seems to be much longer than that for harness systems.

TT

[Tawfik]

Oh I see.
Nonetheless, what is the reason for the actual 5 years. Is it related to aging of the belts due to UV and other elements exposure or a number that manufacturers came up with based on lab testing?
When I compare the webbing on my schroth harnesses VS the stock belts, they are quite different.

[kurquhart]

OK, so who is going to Streets?
How about California Speedway?
Who will take TTOD and what will their times be?
Who will come out on top of KI? Front engine, rear or mid? Water or air-cooled?

I will be at Streets, but not Fontana. My prediction is that Martin will win KI: the 911s tend to have an advantage on the tighter tracks. Personally, I aim to just keep the pressure on; the fast guys can't perform as well when they are looking over their shoulders to see if I am closing in.

[kary]

I won't be at streets, not my favorite track, but will be at Fontana, great track, very challenging to faster everywhere on that track!

Have fun at streets all and I will see you guys at Fontana!

[Steve Grosekemper]

It's also a bit confusing that it is acceptable to run stock belts no matter how old they are (ie: they could be on a > 30 years old 914 running in S or SS)

Actually, this is not strictly true. The current rules state: "Cars that do not have 5 or 6 point harnesses must have fully functional factory restraint systems. In Time Trials and DE, factory belts more than 20 years old, or visibly frayed or damaged at any age, must be replaced with new belts."

I understand your point, though, that the "acceptable life cycle" of factory restraints seems to be much longer than that for harness systems.

TT

This is an example of poorly thought out ruling (IMHO) My '83 SC-Cab belts see sun 200 days a year and 100 of those days are direct sunlight (top off) It has newer belts, less than 10 years old, but there is no date on them...

The 911 I am currently driving in competition gets the belts put in a black nylon bag when not at the track... call it 30 days of UV per year if I hit every event possible.

So the belts that are stored in a cool, dry, dark place seeing a total of 150 days of UV are good for 5 years and the ones that see no special attention have a supposed UV lifespan of 4000 days...

Am I missing the reasoning here?

It just seems to me that a guideline is fine as long as it is still left up to the technical inspector for the final call.

[Pete Millikin]

I'm going to Fontana, and will pass on Streets for budget reasons.

Another subject to stoke the fire- the Orange Coast region is having monthly autoxes at El Toro. This could be our future if/when we loose Qualcom. Anyone have experience running there? Is this why we have not seen much of Curt, Dan, Doug K. et. al.? They are secretly competing against OC?

[993Panzer]

TT and Steve,

Thanks for clearing up the rules a little bit. The 3 point thing still concerns me and I understand we're trying to get people into DE and TT events with little expense. I agree with Steve about taking care of your belts makes them last longer but the rules state 5 years. If we did leave it up to the tech inspectors we then have the human element involved and I'm sure no tech inspector would want there name on a tech sheet of a car that had a safety failure, especially if it was a personnal call as opposed to a rule based call. Just my 2 cents about some safety rules that seem a little off the mark.

[Greg Phillips]

This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps.

Note that this seems to preclude having a sub strap slot added to your stock or even after market seats. If the seat did not come from the manufacturer with a sub slot, you have to use your factory belts
Greg

[jenniferreinhardt]

If you guys are still bored, you could always pre-register for the March 11th autocross!

Also, here’s some pics of Martin in Switzerland. He and his Dad are painting my helmet!