PCA SDR

Tomorrow's AX and the postings about the upcoming schools got me thinking about teaching methods again (there I go thinking again!).

The mantra "slow in, fast out" is great as a general concept, and we all know what it means (I hope!). However, what do you think about a teaching mantra that provides a student with a couple of easy-to-remember tangible instructions, to wit:

Brake Early, Turn Late

In my experience as an instructor, these are areas I have to work on with most students - especially the "turn late". We talk about "Type 1" corners and late apexing, but the real key is to get the students to waaiiiittttt for the turn-in. Similarly, after students find out how great Porsche brakes are , I keep having to get them to brake earlier to achieve the "slow in, fast out" effects.

Just tossing this out as a suggestion. Let me know what you think. Survey says???

(Remember this is intended for novice instruction and doesn't begin to address trail braking, left foot braking, or other advanced techniques. The question is whether this adds value in bringing new drivers up to speed [ok - don't all groan at once]. )

If you're going to review the material taught in the upcoming schools, I wonder if I could offer a suggestion (even tho I'm not involved) or at least get a discussion going about "shuffle steering" for the benefit of future participants.
When I took the Performance Driving School a few years ago, I remember being taught "shuffle steering" particularly during the classroom session Friday evening.I assume this is still being done?
Anyway, it's taken a few years of racing experience with POC and some personal coaching by some of the most accomplished drivers in the U.S. to realize that shuffle steering is a prescription for disaster on a real race track and a difficult habit to unlearn.
However, since unlearning this technique, I've always wondered why it's taught by SDR/PCA.
Barring any unanticipated revelations about its usefulness, my suggestion is to remove "shuffle steering" from the syllabus.
My $.02 as they say.

JHP, you say "it's taken a few years of racing experience with POC and some personal coaching by some of the most accomplished drivers in the U.S. to realize that shuffle steering is a prescription for disaster on a real race track"

I can see your point .... Just curious, what is the preferred way to handle the steering wheel on a race track?

Maybe shuffle steering is just for tight turns on an autocross?

Bill Behun wrote:JHP, you say "it's taken a few years of racing experience with POC and some personal coaching by some of the most accomplished drivers in the U.S. to realize that shuffle steering is a prescription for disaster on a real race track"

I can see your point .... Just curious, what is the preferred way to handle the steering wheel on a race track?

Maybe shuffle steering is just for tight turns on an autocross?

You initially put your hands on the steering wheel in the 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 o'clock positions and leave them there, rotating the steering wheel as necessary to make the turn. In the event of an oversteer situation, you don't have to worry or think about where the wheel is positioned as your hands are telling you and you know exactly where they have to go to correct and then return to the neutral position. I read an article by a pro driver a couple years ago (it may have been Patrick Long)who said he thought one of the primary reasons amateur drivers lost control of their cars and went off track was shuffle steering.
I must admit I don't know much about a/x so there may be some virtue to shuffle steering in that environment. But I know that when I became a Flight Instructor some years ago, we learned various Laws of Learning, one of which was/is the Law of Primacy.
Based on the law of primacy, students retain information they learn for the first time longer than they retain information they must relearn. Unlearning incorrect procedures (or bad habits) is always more difficult than learning the correct procedures in the beginning. Therefore, the law of primacy plays an important role in any type of training.
Habits ingrained from participating in a/x events should be viewed as building blocks of skills that will be useful/transferable to the next step (Time Trials on big tracks, and then Club racing). Shuffle steering is not something you want to do on a big track at high speed.

Based on the law of primacy,

That must be why my golf game is so bad

Gary Burch wrote:

Based on the law of primacy,

That must be why my golf game is so bad

Ditto to that, Gary!!

Bill Behun wrote:JHP, you say "it's taken a few years of racing experience with POC and some personal coaching by some of the most accomplished drivers in the U.S. to realize that shuffle steering is a prescription for disaster on a real race track"

I can see your point .... Just curious, what is the preferred way to handle the steering wheel on a race track?

Maybe shuffle steering is just for tight turns on an autocross?

Shuffle steering for autocross makes the very large steering inputs needed at the relatively los speeds in the autocross enviornment easier.
The higher speeds and less abrupt turns found on "big tracks" used for Time Trial and Club Racing don't need this large steering input.
And the comments that keeping your hands in only one position for these event are totally correct.

We teach "brake in a straight line" in the Performance Driving School, because this is the safest technique for the beginner. And we recognize that trail braking and left foot braking call for a different approach for the more advanced driver.

The idea of teaching the "most correct" approach from the start is a good one, but we don't do it for braking.
We tell folks that there are more advanced skills that will be different from what we teach the beginner.

Perhaps the same approach for shuffle steering. It does work very well for autocross, and is not the best for big tracks.

vvvince Knauf

John:

Thanks for bringing this up; it is a very good point.

I have had students varying from microshuffling
the wheel to crossing their arms and locking them.
Most autocross courses require some form of
hand adjustment, as the corners simply cannot
be made with the hands in the 10-2 position.
There are some "Big" tracks where I find similar
situations (5R at Spring Mountain, the "boot" at
the Glen, for instance). In these cases, the
corner is simply not safe locking the hands
at the 10-2 (or 9-3) position (at least with
my car).

As Vince suggests, most instructors try to tell
our students there are very few absolutes. This
is in agreement with Primacy - We should not
teach something which is a tool (like shuffle
steering) as an absolute, meant to become a
habit.

I try to have my students keep their hands on the
10-2 (or 9-3) location of the wheel as long as
it is feasible. Then, a smoth, gentle, alternating
repositioning (shuffle, if you wish) to safely
negotiate the tight turn.

Habits are for things like not resting your hand
on the shift know, or keeping the left foot on
the clutch pedal. Shuffle steering should be a
tool, not a habit. IMO, this can be taught at
the autocross or PDS level, and will then be
useful for their entire career.

Paul.

Vince and Paul,
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm not sure there's a great answer to this point about shuffle steering. It appears, from what you say, that it's a necessary technique in a/x and that's fine. And that's especially fine for folks who choose to exlusively do a/x.
The problem comes into play if they want to transition to TTs. Regardless of the context in which they've been taught shuffle steering (e.g. it's a tool to be used in a/x and nothing more)it still likely becomes a habit from constant repetition and habits are hard to break (just ask anyone who has worked with ME!!)
I guess it is what it is, as they say. You need to teach it, but the context should deifintely be emphasized. FWIW, I never heard that mentioned in the PDS I attended.
Keep up the good work.
Hope to see U one of these days soon.
JP

JHPGT3 wrote: Regardless of the context in which they've been taught shuffle steering (e.g. it's a tool to be used in a/x and nothing more)it still likely becomes a habit from constant repetition and habits are hard to break...

The bad steering habit I see displayed by most beginners in tight turns is the "hand-over-hand" cranking of the wheel they picked up early in their stop-and-go street driving (and parking) experience, which often culminates in them having both hands crossed and together at the top or on one side of the wheel! This habit is often thoroughly ingrained from years and years of street driving. I think teaching them shuffle-steering to replace this technique is a step in the right direction, myself, especially considering that only a minor percentage of the drivers who attend the PDS will even go on to further performance driving (I have heard only about 25% ever even attend another autox). The PDS (purportedly) is about teaching safety in street driving even more than preparing people for a future in the sport of competitive driving. In view of that, I think replacing old habits like hand-over-hand steering and the #2 offense--unwinding the wheel by relaxing your grip on it and letting it slip thru your hands to straighten the car--are appropriate goals.

If the student does progress beyond the initial PDS, and wants to learn more about performance driving, I think there will be plenty of time for them to "relearn" new habits. I'm not sure that teaching them proper big-track steering technique at the PDS is the most appropriate approach, given the scale of the course. I think that may be more appropriate for a venue like the upcoming DE/TT school.

We have digressed considerably from Kim's initial intention for this thread, though, and to "steer" this discussion back to the "Brake Early, Turn Late" mantra, I would have to say that one of the most common tendencies that I see in students is to not utilize proper threshold braking and begin their braking too early. You must be getting paired up with students in later cars who have learned to love and depend on their ABS systems, Kim! Since I tend to get paired with people in early cars, without ABS, I often find them very wary of locking up the front tires and unwilling to be very agressive in the brake zone, so for me, I'm not sure that "Brake Early" is a useful mantra in trying to enforce a late apex. I usually fall back on the "Stay OUT" slogan.

My $.02,
TT

Oh so many years ago (we had to dodge roaming dinosaurs on the track, and I was a kid) I was taught - by a pro - that the hands are ALWAYS at 9-3 on the wheel, no exceptions. The reason behind this is so your hands "know" where center is when saving an unexpected high speed slide.
What do you want the outcome of such a slide to look like? Do you want to be lurching around wasting attention trying to figure out where the wheel is pointed? Or do you want to finish that "BIIGGG OOPS" slide with the car still on the track, the rear wheels driving toward the exit smoothly, the car pointed in the right direction with just the right steering correction dialed in? It's impossible, -or at least unlikely- if your hands don't know where zero is.
I haven't touched on the skills of spinning, and spin recovery. If you practice these skills to the point of being able to choose which direction of rotation to recover from a spin once the car is backwards, you'll find shuffle steering is a recipe for disaster.
Watch the "supermen" in action -F1 drivers- they can spin and recover without even getting off line. They have a "little" quicker steering ratio than we do, and don't have to move their hands on the wheel, but still........

LUCKY DAVE wrote:I was taught - by a pro - that the hands are ALWAYS at 9-3 on the wheel, no exceptions. The reason behind this is so your hands "know" where center is when saving an unexpected high speed slide.

Once again, as others have said, this is perfectly appropriate for advanced instruction on a big track, high speed course, but that is NOT what we have at the PDS. There are turns so slow and so sharp that you will be unable to negotiate them using this technique, as you are physically limited to turning the wheel only a bit past 225 degrees without moving your hands, and you are very crossed-up at that point.

I haven't touched on the skills of spinning, and spin recovery.

This is not a skill we would teach or even encourage in the PDS environment, either. For safety reasons, once a spin is initiated, we would only be interested in the student going "both feet in" and stopping the car, not trying to recover from it. All the really bad incidents that we have experienced at the stadium have been from people trying to "save" an out-of-control situation.

TT

I agree with the "no spin recovery" tactic at AX events, for the same reasons you state. The light poles are hard, and too close!

Kim, your mantra doesn't resonate with everyone but I, for one, am going to try repeating it each time I approach the start. It seems like as I've aquired a modicum of skill, I have started to go a bit faster, and thrown out those early lessons in the process. I was (relatively) fast early and improved little in the afternoon, despite the dry track. My young friend and competitor Josh was smoother and ultimately faster than me, even as I advised him that he seemed to be braking too early...

ttweed wrote:You must be getting paired up with students in later cars who have learned to love and depend on their ABS systems, Kim!

Very good point! I almost always get students with later model Porsches and ABS, and it seems like the aggressive ones just want to dive in and use those great Porsche brakes. I always seem to be trying to get them to brake earlier so they don't "push" through the turn.