TRASH TALK

[Ted Myrus]

It has been suggested that in '08 there be Trash Talk Tuesday. This is where drivers gather at a pizza joint and do some bench racing.

Here's your opportunity in '07. Tomorrow night from 6:00 to 9:00pm. Oggi's Pizza & Brewery, 9828 Mission Gorge Road, Santee Town Center.

We'll preview the interest in this suggestion.

[ronaldtrotter]

Might be good Ted but the Instructors meeting for PDS is tomorrow also.

[Ted Myrus]

Too bad the driving chairs are still planning activities that are scheduled on top of existing club events.

[ronaldtrotter]

We all have to make choices in life. This is just one of them.

Ron

[Jackie C]

Ok, since we don't want to waste Ted's post here, I've got a trash talk subject. Since the club's instructors will be fairly busy instructing 3 of the 4 weekends this month; DE school, PDS and AX here's a question that I pose to existing instructors. What would motivate you to continue to instruct in our club, beside the obvious (helping others, giving back to the club, etc.). The recent "carrot" of a set of tires to one of the DE instructors is great. I realize we can't do that all the time. What about maybe only instructing 2 or 3 AXs then getting one off (just driving)? Or maybe a monetary discount at AXs? Just throwing it out there to hear your opinions. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Dan Chambers]

Ok, since we don't want to waste Ted's post here, I've got a trash talk subject. Since the club's instructors will be fairly busy instructing 3 of the 4 weekends this month; DE school, PDS and AX here's a question that I pose to existing instructors. What would motivate you to continue to instruct in our club, beside the obvious (helping others, giving back to the club, etc.). The recent "carrot" of a set of tires to one of the DE instructors is great. I realize we can't do that all the time. What about maybe only instructing 2 or 3 AXs then getting one off (just driving)? Or maybe a monetary discount at AXs? Just throwing it out there to hear your opinions. Inquiring minds want to know.

Jackie: Great question.

In my opinion this has been a difficult philosophical and pragmatic delema ever since I've been in the club.

As I see it, on the one hand "we" are a non-profit volunteer organization for the love of the cars/people. As I see it, producing events on a volunteer basis usually implies that we do things without compensation for the love of doing them (tours/dinners/driving schools/etc). What I was led to believe is, the fees are/were intended to cover the costs of putting on events at a break-even rate. The incentive for participating and producing events should be/is altruistic by nature of the club: we love the cars and the people associated with Porsches.

As I've also seen it, on the other hand there are those people who produce events who believe that human nature being what it is, there should be incentives ... real, objective incentives (goodies, reimbursements/fees paid, trophies and gizmos, etc). As I've witnessed within the PCA and PCA-SDR, history has proven on more than one occasion that incentives beyond "altruistic intent" derives more response from the "volunteers" than the act of providing a volunteer services for a simple "thanks for a job well-done."

The history of the "incentives" that I have observed with the PCA-SDR have been conflicting ... if not schizophrenic ... to me since 2002. But, that's just my viewpoint. As exampled: The Region didn't (doesn't) want to "reimburse" volunteers (Instructors, Chairs, etc.) for their efforts monitarily during the year as that might dispute the "volunteer" philosophy, but they put on lavish Installation Dinners heavily subsidized with the "left-over" funds of the year with the expressed understanding that the Gala is a "thank-you" and a special recognition for all the volunteers. The Region occasionally waffles on handing out certificates for discount or free AX/DE's to Instructors and driving-event volunteers (some years they're given, others not) and yet trophies and award fees to these same volunteers have cost thousands of dollars historically (as AX Chair and "trophy-gofer" in 2003 I spent over $3K). The annual cost of not buying incentives, but recognizing "volunteer" help has run in excess of $40,000.00, historically.

The review of past practices leaves me a bit confused.

What's the answer? It depends on the social fabric of the club at any given moment. As a former chair who relied on volunteers to make things happen; as a former Board member and Vice President who decided on how best to generate interest in volunteerism within the region (with or without physical/objective incentives), as someone who has been recognized for past volunteer efforts (Bill Myrick Enthusiast of the Year Award, 2003) I think I have a tiny, tiny bit of an understanding as to how incentives - whether altruistic or material - may work. In the end, it's what the Chairs, the Board, and the volunteer populus of the Region want.

Just my own thoughts. Others may differ (and I'm sure they do...).

[gulf911]

While I can see both sides of the debate, pro or anti incentives, I would look at the 3k Dan talks about and put it in proper perspective. How much did AX (only) bring in that year etc. I am not that strong in math but using conservative numbers.... $40 each at 100 participants with 10 events for the year is 40K, equals 7.5% for trophys/awards. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me and we have usually many more than 100 at each event. I also don't think think anyone views the .25 ribbon as their incentive to volunteer as instructor. What would be the most obvious incentive to volunteer to instruct is the ...dare I say it?...no corner working for the instructors option. While some (I won't mention any names but thier initials are Jad Duncan.. ) like to corner work. So let them corner work. I have found that either you have about 2 minutes to get ready for your own group or you miss lunch or have to wolf it down in 5 minutes before going out. Not all the time but most of the time. So now I will hide in my bunker and wait.....

[Gary Burch]

...dare I say it?...no corner working for the instructors option.

Not the old no corner working thing again, please. How much can you set around in a day? Get-up and do something. Corner working is part of the deal, if you don't pick up cones, unload the trailer, setup the track or a thousand other things, then corner working for an hour isn't so bad. I am sure you can work it into your schedule. Tom Comeau does all of the above and still corner works.

I think Dan C is right on with his comments about the volunteer awards and the subsidized awards dinner. I know I didn't volunteer for the awards or the perks {no corner working). I did it to help out and join in. And made some good friends in the process. That's what it's all about. Don't get me wrong trophies and awards are nice. Recognition for a service done is also nice. But, that isn't the reason you do it. Of course, a free ax or TT would be a great incentive for any instructor or volunteer.

[martinreinhardt]

If it would be up to me the students would get an instructor for their first three events only to learn the basics about our events, safety and racing. If the student still wants an instructor after 3 times, it should be an extra $10 entry fee for the student. The instructors registration fee could be reduced by $10 per student he/she instructs that day. Instructing is fun to meet new people and see the students evolve with their driving skills, but on the downside, it doesn't leave much time for the instructors to do adjustments to their cars or socialize with friends.

Trophies to me are important. And to many, winning is the goal to reach in racing. Trophies are the souvenirs some will enjoy dusting and maybe one day showing our grand-kids or friends when we are 90 years old.

[Tawfik]

Perhaps we can have service points which could be applied toward the championships.
There could be 2 options:

1) In order to win a championship, one would need a minimum number of service points.

OR

2) 10 service points could be equal to 1 championship point and could be applied to the championship points.

This could be an incentive for more volunteers not just instructors.
For example someone doing timing could earn x service points, someone instructing y points etc...

[Kim Crosser]

Martin - I heartily disagree with "part" of your post. If I weren't an instructor, I would be requesting an instructor whenever possible - you never stop learning. Adding a $10 fee to each student would be discouraging this learning process.

However, it did cause me to think of the following.

What if, for each instruction day that an instructor tought (actually had a student for the day), the instructor got a "Credit", and 10 (or 12 or 15, or ???) Credits were good for one free AX, or ?? Credits were good for one free DE/TT day?

This would add some bookkeeping to the event and tracking of the "Credits", but would this incentivize some people to instruct more?

IMHO - any such incentive should be relatively minor. The incentive should NOT be enough to encourage people who don't really want to instruct to instruct just to get the incentive. This should just be a "sweetener". I would like to think that most of us instruct for multiple reasons: to help our students progress in meaningful ways, to learn from our students, and - oh yes - to get a little more seat time out on the track.

Oh - and puhleeze - no more requests for corner working exemptions for instructors. We already excuse any instructor who spends a session out with their student, but many of us work all day, teach, and still do a corner working session - it really isn't that bad, and it should be a learning experience.

[Mike]

If a student is required to have an instructor for say the first 3 events then allow the student's instructor to enter the event for free.
Consider it an investment in the student that they may get hooked and enter events for years to come, clearly off setting your $120 (3 AX entries) instructor gratuity.

So many students, and so many experianced drivers still want intructors and as in this month so many Q track weekends have put a serious demand on instuctors.

Lets try to control the demand to those that really need it.
If an event chair thinks a driver needs instruction assign an instructor, no charge.
But what about the 4 year AX vet asking for instruction, just for one session. I would hope that he would be serious enough about it to flip a ten spot into the instructor's kitty.

What you do with any monies raised could be debated.

The above is a model of what the NCRC track club is doing.

[Jad]

I actually kinda like Martins idea of a small charge for a full time instructor after the first 3 events. Kim, I also agree with you, but I think the two types of instructing are different. The 'paid' instuctor would ride with the student each session and give rides each session along with being around to help and discuss things throughout the day. The other people like Kim and I, would like to have someone ride along for 1-2 laps and give a new perspective on techniques or the course.

Sometimes I don't 'instruct', but go for a few laps with 3-4 different drivers which I really like doing. When I instruct a complete newbie, spending all day helping them through things, it is not nearly as fun.

Finally, anyone who complains about corner working or arrives late works double sessions from now on what do you think....

[gulf911]

We already excuse any instructor who spends a session out with their student, but many of us work all day, teach, and still do a corner working session - it really isn't that bad, and it should be a learning experience.

Huh?? Since when do we excuse corner working for instructors that spend a session with their student?? I must have missed those events??..

Also, I don't know where you are corner working but you are not out there for 1 hr. its much closer to 2.

The vast majority does not like to corner work for many reasons, not one of those reasons include not wanting to help, or not wanting to volunteer. I have no problem helping setup and or tear down, loading the truck etc. I also enjoy instructing , but when asked what kind of incentives would help in getting more instructors to volunteer , and that small incentive doesn't cost the club a penny , its a win win in my book.

And I do believe Jackie asked the question and I gave an obvious answer, but don't ask me to stop asking because you don't like the answer.

[Amail]

I recall seeing a requirement for novice drivers to have instructors for their first four (six?) ax events. Looking thru the rules I cannot find that now.

Is this a requirement?