PCA SDR

Last year, 944 Spec cars were listed as '944', and always participated in the BRI ranking. This event, it appears that 944 Spec cars are listed as '944spec', and none of them received a BRI ranking. Is there a reason for this, or just a hiccup?

It didn't matter for top 10 BRI (adjusted times for top 10 were all below the unadjusted 944spec times), but it looks like those 5 drivers were left out of the fun.

Irksome wrote:Last year, 944 Spec cars were listed as '944', and always participated in the BRI ranking. This event, it appears that 944 Spec cars are listed as '944spec', and none of them received a BRI ranking. Is there a reason for this, or just a hiccup?

It didn't matter for top 10 BRI (adjusted times for top 10 were all below the unadjusted 944spec times), but it looks like those 5 drivers were left out of the fun.

I think the 2008 rules changes caused the BRI not to be accurate or no existant on the results website. The results announced at the autocross were correct, since the software in the timing computer has been updated by Tom B. The website has not yet been updated for the new rules and BRI.

Also,
I believe the BRI uses a class FI multiplier for the 944 Spec cars when they are closer to a GP car?
Each 944 Spec car needs to be 2600 lbs minimum including the driver. So some cars are 2375 lbs while others might be 2440.
In any case, when you realize how big the point spread can be in GP and all the cars in that class get the same multiplier, it's difficult to take the BRI seriously at all. A 7 point car gets the same handicap as a 20 point car?
I see the BRI as "just for fun."

Tim Comeau wrote:I see the BRI as "just for fun."

Oh, trust me, I wasn't trying to read too much into the BRI numbers, they are just interesting and, as you say, "fun". But having only 5 cars out of 90 not included seemed like a mistake that should be corrected. =)

Tim Comeau wrote: Also,
I believe the BRI uses a class FI multiplier for the 944 Spec cars when they are closer to a GP car?

The last iteration of the BRI that I saw had the 944Spec index as 1.040, the same as GP class. See the "BRI explained" page.
There will have to be an update now for the 2008 rule changes and the addition of the new 944 Cup and 944 Supercup classes, I guess, if anyone is going to run in them??? How much faster is a 944Cup over 944Spec? A 944Supercup over a 944Cup? You might help the BRI get updated by estimating the difference in speed potential for those new classes, if someone hasn't already done that.

In any case, when you realize how big the point spread can be in GP and all the cars in that class get the same multiplier, it's difficult to take the BRI seriously at all. A 7 point car gets the same handicap as a 20 point car?

It's that way in every class, Tim, but I think Prepared class now goes from 9-20 points, not 7-20, and the spread just gets bigger in the higher classes. Improved is 21-40! If you aren't running an optimized car for the class, which is what the BRI assumes, you can still be pretty happy about beating anyone who is. The Spec classes are definitely closer in prep than anything except Street Stock, maybe.

I see the BRI as "just for fun."

As it always has been.

TT

Irksome wrote:...it looks like those 5 drivers were left out of the fun.

Make that 7 drivers--look at me and Mark Garriott in "X" class! An index of 3.00 is ridiculous. My adjusted time was over 226 seconds! In order to place in the top 10 BRI positions, I would have had to run that course in 28.5 seconds. That wouldn't be possible in any car, even the most exotic autox "special" you could dream up.

TT

ttweed wrote:

Irksome wrote:...it looks like those 5 drivers were left out of the fun.

Make that 7 drivers--look at me and Mark Garriott in "X" class!

TT

TM - Wasn't Mark driving your 996? I didn't realize it was that exotic.

Yeah, I told Mark G. to run in OS/S, but he just didn't want to mess with points for anyone. He'll be back in his 'real' class with his 914 soon.

By the way, I'm having new tires mounted as I type, we really shredded them on Saturday! I think there was about 8-10 square inches of exposed belt after Mark finished his last timed run. I had to rip a 2"x2" strip off the tire as it was flapping on my wheel well...

I think it is fair to say that I got my money's worth out of those tires!

Tom,
944 Cup and 944 Super Cup are classes for PCA Club Racing only. They took them in as SP-2 and SP-3. Stupid move on PCA's part. They should have used SP-2 and 3 for a spec Boxster class and a spec 911 class. We already had a 944 spec class.
The 944 Cup rules involve a very UN-scientific sliding weight scale that the guys in 944 spec are dead set against. It's voodoo math in an attempt to equalize the cars!
BOO on 944 Cup rules!
944 Spec rules!!

Speaking of indexing, shouldn't someone be changing the index for the IS class? When virtually everyone in IS can get into the top 10 BRI, it seems that the index might be too low!

I know I will receive hate mail from around 4 - 5 IS class guys, but ....

Any thoughts?

ChuckS wrote:Speaking of indexing, shouldn't someone be changing the index for the IS class? When virtually everyone in IS can get into the top 10 BRI, it seems that the index might be too low!

I know I will receive hate mail from around 4 - 5 IS class guys, but ....

Any thoughts?

1) I've always thought the 'S' classes were 'advantaged' in the BRI. I'd get my goose cooked when I was in GP even though my times weren't significantly faster from GS to GP.

2) The BRI was intended to give SS and S classes a distinct advantage, so should we be surprised that alot of BRI winners are in S or SS classes.

3)Martin is in KI or KP and came in 2nd. So, is it really all that bad?

4) I don't think everyone will always agree about the BRI being accurate. It's kind of like Lincoln said : "You can please most of the people some of the time, and some of the people most of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time." .... Or something like that.

Just my opinions. Othe will disagree.

It's kind of like Lincoln said : "You can please most of the people some of the time, and some of the people most of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time." .... Or something like that.

Hey Dan, was that Lincoln or PT Barnum who said that? No wait he said "there was a sucker born every minute" Agreeing with Chuck just gives him more ammunition to pick on the little guys in IS. There's just no justice.

Dan Chambers wrote: 2) The BRI was intended to give SS and S classes a distinct advantage, so should we be surprised that alot of BRI winners are in S or SS classes.

This is somewhat correct, I think. The S or SS classes are almost NEVER in the top 10 on raw time, unless you are driving a GT2/GT3 in S class like Steve Eguina or Steve Dente. The BRI was intended to give some "mock" glory to those in the lower classes whose cars did not have the speed potential to achieve a top-10 finish, but were nevertheless driven very close to their limits on any given day.

I don't think it is unusual or out-of-whack for the 4 drivers in IS to be in the top-10 of the BRI this week--that has become a very competitive class, and they are stacked with good drivers at the moment. When you compare their raw times to the IP, II or IM class, which should have higher speed potential, you can see that they all performed very well, or else the other cars were not developed to the limit of their class, which I know is not true, as the IM car has been a high TTOD/BRI car in the past.

There have been plenty of Prepared/Improved/Modified and even Race class cars in the BRI top-10 over the last few years--just look at the results. Yes, the S and SS classes get a leg up with the index, and it is easier to prepare a car to the limit of the rules in the lower classes, but the people who put in a good drive rise to the top no matter what class they're in. I don't see any need to change the indexes except to include the new classes that have been created this year and to adjust for rule changes.

TT

I'll get the missing BRI numbers up soon, maybe within the week. I'm working on it, checks in the mail, that kind of thing...

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