Car classifcation

[Rsylvestri]

I'm looking at a G class club race car I'm thinking of buying. It's a 1976 euro carrera with an SC 3.0.
In the '08 rules it states a 0.22 mutiplication factor for the upgraded h.p. the 3.0 would have over the stock 2.7. What was the stock h.p. of the 2.7? I believe the 3.0 h.p.is 179.
The suspension, tires and areo I can figure out, thanks for any help.
Rick

[Dan Chambers]

Rick:

The only data I have is from the 911 Redbook by Patrick C. Paternie. He mentions a 2.7 for 1976 at 165 HP and 176ft-lbs of torque. I cant tell if that is Euro, RoW, or all 2.7's.

The 3.0 SC engines produce roughly the same HP: ~ 175 bhp. Sounds to me like apples to apples, but I'd need to know more.

[Greg Phillips]

I'm looking at a G class club race car I'm thinking of buying. It's a 1976 euro carrera with an SC 3.0.
In the '08 rules it states a 0.22 mutiplication factor for the upgraded h.p. the 3.0 would have over the stock 2.7. What was the stock h.p. of the 2.7? I believe the 3.0 h.p.is 179.
The suspension, tires and areo I can figure out, thanks for any help.
Rick

It looks like the '76 would have had 165 HP and the SC went from 180 to 204 depending on the year. The Euro 2.7 probably had more than 165, but for classification purposes you would start with the US figures. If it still had the Euro 2.7 you would also now take points for that difference.

Greg

[Rsylvestri]

It's an '81 ROW 3.0 engine.
Thanks for the help Dan & Greg !

[ttweed]

Rick-

If it started as a '76 ROW Carrera, it would have come with a 200HP, Type 930/02, 3-liter CIS engine, I believe. You would need to confirm the VIN as being in the range for a ROW Carrera to determine that with certainty, but it doesn't really matter under the current rules. A ROW '76 Carrera used to start in base class J, but not anymore.

For current PCA Zone 8 AX/TT rules, you would start in base class H, with the '74-77 2.7 USA-spec 911/911S, and add points for improvements from there. Since you don't have the original engine in it anymore, you would calculate the HP difference based on the 165HP 2.7 USA-spec 911S engine vs. the current '81 ROW SC engine, which should be a Type 930/10, rated at 204HP, so your delta would be 39HP, for 9 points added, putting you straight into HP class. If the rest of the improvements to the car increase your total to more than 20 points, you would be in HI class, and if more than 40, you would be in AM.

Verify the Type # on the current engine to make sure it is ROW and not a '81 USA-spec SC motor (Type 930/16), as USA-spec was only 180HP.

Steve or Paul or one of the current rules-gurus can correct me if I'm wrong, here.

TT

[pdy]

Tom is right.

As an alternative, you could also take individual
points for all the little things in the engine
that are different (displacement, CR, cams?).
It would probably add up to more than 9.

Also, check the weight - I don't think the Euro
Carrera weighed less than the US 911S (1120 kg).

BTW, Rick - I have a Zone 8 TT award for you...

[ttweed]

As an alternative, you could also take individual points for all the little things in the engine that are different (displacement, CR, cams?).
It would probably add up to more than 9.

If the engine swapped in is not totally stock, you must take the points for the individual modifications to it, and they will most definitely be more than 9. In your case, it would be 5 for heads, 4 for induction, 5 for cams, and 4 for displacement, for a total of 18 points. Any engine swap that does not use a stock factory configuration gets hammered in Zone 8 rules (BTDT)!

TT

[Rsylvestri]

Tm & Paul,

Thanks for the explanations on classing this car.
I'll talk to the owner and get the vin# on the car and engine. It has a build sheet on the engine which was done by Dan Jacobs (Hairy Dog Garage) but I havn't seen it yet. I should get that this weekend before I decide if it's a go.

Paul, Thanks I'll be at the driver dinner Feb 9th,
should be fun

[Rsylvestri]

Ok it looks like I've got most of the info needeed for my classification.
>Originaly a euro 3.0 (200hp) Carrera vin# 91166xxxx
>Engine replaced with ROW 930/10 (204hp)
So other than suspension mods and tires would I take the 4hp over the stock config and use the .22 multiplier for 1 point?
Also have a #7310923 915/62 non-limited slip on the tranny, is this the 8.31 R&P and the stock tranny or one that came with the ROW 930/10
Thanks for any help.
Rick

[ttweed]

So other than suspension mods and tires would I take the 4hp over the stock config and use the .22 multiplier for 1 point?

Rick-
See my post above. There is no base class listed for the Euro Carrera 3.0 anymore, so you have to consider the car as either a '74-77 911S, with the USA-spec 165 HP, 2.7L 911S engine, or possibly "backdate" it to the '74-75 911 Carrera 2.7, with 175 HP, as the base when calculating points for improvements in H class. Your HP delta would be 39 for the former, or 29 for the latter, so either 9 points or 6 points for the engine.

If you consider it as "backdated", you must compare all the other aspects of the '74-'75 Carrera when assessing further points, including the weight, suspension, trans. gearing, etc.

Also have a #7310923 915/62 non-limited slip on the tranny, is this the 8.31 R&P and the stock tranny or one that came with the ROW 930/10

That appears to be a 1981 ROW 5-speed tranny, so was probably swapped in with the 930/10 engine. R&P is 8:31, and gearing is 11/35, 18/33, 23/29, 26/26, and 28/22, if they have not been changed in the past at some point, which is always a possibility with a race car. I do not have the spec book for the '74-77 911S or the '74/75 911 Carrera, so I can't tell you how that compares to them.

TT

[gulf911]

Definately an AM car....

[Rsylvestri]

Tom,

Looks like I've got some reading up to do. I don't know of any changes other than the galvanizing and 3.0 engine in that year of Carrera. Either way it would class out in HP with 17 points with 39hp or 14 points on the backdate hp, it's a stock G class engine.
But if I go for the backdate to 74-75 Carrera it would give me some upgrade points for the future
Thanks Tom

Funny Dan, your
I'm heading that way fast enough!