TT Info

[glenn_993]

Does the TT group ever have information meetings? I've have about 12 AXs and 3 DEs under my belt and would like to make the next step. But, I've got some questions about how it all works. Maybe a casual together, swap stories, toss back a few beers.

[Larry Clark]

By "the TT group" do you mean Time Trialers or Trash Talkers?
(Or are they synonymous?)

[kary]

Glenn,

What wold you like to know about Time Trialing? I am sure we can answer all your questions right here without to much punishment

[Mike]

or attend the July 25 QDE where you can meet with several TT racers. It is basically just like a DE with timed runs during the afternoon of the last day.

[glenn_993]

I'm looking at attending the Spring Mountain TT. How do most of the drivers get their cars and equipment to the big tracks? Is it reasonable and/or safe to drive long distances on my race tires (Victoracers) ? I know Kary has a trailer. Where would be a good place to rent a trailer, if that's the best way to go.

[kary]

Glenn, excellent question and one that all people wanting to get into big track events struggles with, I know I did.

First I want to say check out Rennlist hisotyr on this topic. Lot's of good threads about this; however, here is a recap of some of your options as I can recall them:

1. Drive on street tires to event and get someone else to bring your wheels/tires to the evet for you.
Pros: You don't have to buy or rent anything to transport
Pros: You can use any track tire.
Cons: You will likely have to bribe, beg, or something worse (can't mention it here!) to get people to continually transport your tires.
Cons: If your car breaks down tow backs are tough.

2. You use a more suitable street/tack tire on than Kumhos lke the Michelin Pilot Sport cups or the Dunlop Super Sport race. These will handle the street better than Kumho over long distances.
Pros: You only need on set of wheels/tires
Cons: These tires in 18" are around $1200 - $1300.
Cons: If you have a tire or car failure you are out of the event or need a tow back.

3. You can put a hitch on your car to carry wheels.
Pros: you don't have to beg for tansport
Pros: you can use any track tire.
Pros: easier to carry tools as well.
Cons: You need to put a hitch on the 993.
Cons: If your car breaks down you new to tow the car and the trailer.

4. You can rent a trailer.
Pros: you do not need to store it when not in use.
Pros: It is relatively inexpensive to rent.
Cons: you need a tow vehicle and assorted tie downs (don't use the chains that come with these trailers)
Cons: Sometimes it is difficult to rent them if you do not reserve ahead of time (El Camino rentals has a nice tilting bed model)
Cons: if you do not rent from the same place doing the hitch and loading will be a learned experience each time.

5. Buy a trailer. You also need to decide if it is an open or enclosed trailer.
Pros: you always have a trailer and have the set up and loading down.
Pros: you can go to events on short notice....
Cons: You need to buy it....money
Cons: You need to store it.....could be more money
Cons: you need to maintain it....some money

6. You could do an arrive and drive set up like Tim C!

7. Your could abandon the idea and just auto-x

I am sure this will spur on other comments and questions so bring them on!

[kary]

Glenn, or you buy David 944 spec car and load the tires right inside the car and drive to events on the toyo's

[MikeD]

Last year I drove to Spring Mountain. Everything fit in the car, but I was on street tires at the time (I think Kuhmo 712's). It was a decent trip (make sure your the middle car if you caravan though [right Rick? Gregg? ]).

Since then I have driven my car to tracks with a track trailer behind the Boxster. Plus I have both borrowed trailers and rented them. By far the best option is to get your own trailer.

Pulling a track trailer behind your car is a good option, but you are typically the last to leave. You can't really pre-pack the car and trailer like you could your truck. You're tired from a weekend of driving and you still have to change tires and pack the trailer. Myself, and some others that use this option always make sure to have enough in reserve to rent a UHaul and trailer to get back if the car should have problems. Of course that means sticking around until Monday to get home.

The couple of events that I trailered the car it was real nice. I could leisurely pack the truck throughout the day on Sunday. Then after the timed runs (or race) I could just drive the car up onto the trailer, tie it down and take off.

I know there are a couple people that have rented UHaul trailers. They are pretty reasonably priced. The problem is that a lot of them will put you last on their list of possible renters. One-way rentals take priority for auto-transport trailers so they usually don't take a local (which is what you would be considered) reservation until the night before.

I tired El Camino Rentals (as Kary suggested) and will never go back. For one because they will not let me use my Range Rover pull their trailer. For another because they lied about that fact. And finally, I've seen their trailer and it doesn't look like it will be road worthy for much longer.

Kind of a shotgun effect, but I hope there's something here that will help.

[kary]

Mike,

Yes you are correct about one of ElCamino's trailers. It depends upon which oneof the three you get. The first time I rented one I went to the CFOS a few years ago. It worked out fine. The next event following that one, I went up to Sears Point (9 hours one way). I did get the better trailer and would have wondered if I would have made if I had got the poor version. At any rate it was just a suggestion as I know quite a few people who use El Camino.

I agree, if you are going to trailer buying your own is the way to go. I would also add that if you are going to buy a trailer I would suggest an enclosed trailer. It holds much more equipment and is more secure for over night parking than an open trailer.

[Greg Phillips]

As one who has yet to take/use a trailer, I will give you my perspective.
I have so far been able to get my car back from every event I have been to (knock on wood). I have had problems at the track on several occasions but not to the point of being undrivable or fixed in the field. Others have not been so lucky and have come home on trailers, which is where it can get interesting. If you drive out and need major repairs you have a couple of options:
One is borrowing the use of another's trailer whose car is still drivable and street legal (mostly). They drive and your car is on their trailer. Has happened several times and I am thankful of the kindness of other members when it has happened.
Another option is to have the car repaired locally and then pick it up later after getting a ride home with another driver or rental.
Third is sometimes one of the shops is there with a transporter and can take your car back to their shop for repair.
So far I have not had to do any of these (yet). Getting a trailer adds piece of mind but also a lot of other hassles as Kary outlined above.
As regards to tires, so far I have stuck with street tires and not worried about a second (full)set of tires. I usually try to bring a spare set of front or rear tires (depending on which are most worn) in the back of the 928.
Again, finding trailer space for a set of wheels is often possible.
Whichever way you go, make sure your car is mechanically sound and checked out before going to the track. An ounce of prevention goes a long way when you are 3-8 hours from home
Greg

[mnettles]

My two cents:

When I first started going to time trials (PCA and POC) I decided that I would buy a trailer after I had been towed (or had to limp badly) home twice. Less than a year later, I bought my aluminum open trailer which tows very easily behind my Trailblazer. Towing for me takes a lot more time (2 hours to pack plus 2 hours to unpack- lots of stuff goes to the track...- plus an extra hour to get to Willow) but has relieved lots of the "how will I get home" anxiety that I used to have.

mj

[Carl Scragg]

Gosh, nobody's mentioned the method of tire-hauling via a spiffy custom roof-rack. I acquired the rack from Tom Tweed when he moved up to a trailer. The rack does have a lot of windage and I feel like I need to keep the speeds down (but hauling a trailer makes me nervous too), so if someone's got room in their trailer for your tires, that's got to make for a more comfortable drive up. But you do get lots of attention when you drive a 911 with 4 tires on the roof.

[Jeff Grow]

Glenn,
All of the advice you're getting is very good. And please ask/discuss the issues here because I can guarantee there are 10 more people with the same questions.

As a first-timer to the track, I would not worry about any of the complexities of a trailer. If you have an extra set of track wheels, we can always find someone with a large trailer or truck to help a fellow driver out. I don't mean to suggest you shouldn't be prepared, but particularly for your first "away game", just show up with your car in good condition. If something comes up at the track, there will be 20 different people who can help you out. You'll be able to borrow anything. Everyone will want you to have as much fun as them and will go out of their way to help.

Second, why even run the Victoracers at all? Just run street tires. Frankly, you'll appreciate the ability to "hear" them when they approach the limit. I drove my 993 to 5 or 6 track events all on street tires. I remember the appeal of getting race tires and only now really appreciate the advice I got to stay on street tires. I listened, barely, because I bought some BFG TA KDs. In retrospect, I should have bought a set of Kumho MXs and spent my savings on 2 more track events.

As a big track novice, you're going to be focusing on translating the car control you've learned in the parking lot into higher speed corners, getting comfortable with other cars on the track at the same time, etc. You already know the basics of car control and the driving line. You'll have lots of support and great drivers/instructors.

From a practical standpoint, I would do the following:

- take car to one of the PCASDR tech stations. Maybe pay for a little extra attention beyond just tech inspection. This is a good time to insure you have fresh oil, fresh brake fluid, etc. Fix anything that you know needs fixing.

- start with ample brakes and tires. The confidence of knowing you won't run out of pads or tread is important.

- Other than your extra clothes, you need nothing more than what you would bring to an AX. If you've got a few spares, then great, bring them.

You will deal more with mental things. Personally, I think the first big track event is one of the most rewarding experiences that you'll have. You will punch through a mountain of uncertainty, conquer and make significant strides towards mastering a very difficult challenge, and finish up the weekend with an incredible sense of accomplishment.

Feel free to call.

Jeff
619-972-5792

[kary]

Carl, you mean like this? I tried this for a while and it really was a PITA. It works though.

http://members.rennlist.com/kary993/roofrack.jpg

Cheers!

[RickK]

Like Greg, I too am yet to go the trailer route. And I also will second Jeff's advice on just staying on street tires for awhile. I have been running on street tires only so far (about 10 big track days) and am really in no rush to move up to R's. As long as I have someone to run against in my class I don't feel the need to move up. Good competition is what it is all about and unless you have a car and driver capable of running for TTOD then there is no reason that I can see to complicate matters and spend even more money on this hobby.

Now, having been a person who broke down at the track recently and haf to find a ride home for my car (thanks again Mary Jo) I can say that a trailer would be great if it did not require a tow vehicle, storage space and the $$$$$ for all of that.

So, put some good street tires on the car, load it up with your gear for a weekend away and come on out.