PCA SDR

Due to obligations at the church (a dinner for visiting missionaries) I am unable to attend the Festival of Speed. I did however get to test Opie's (my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited) towing abilities. My dad has a car hauler sized trailer and I borrowed it to pick up tile for our downstairs. That tile...interestingly enough...weighed right at 2400lbs, so was a good way to see how Opie handled it without endangering the Porsche. I did of course try to get the 924S on the trailer, but the ramps are too steep so I will need others if I ever trailer Tuffy to an event. Anyway, with careful application of the automatic trans I was able to maintain a steady speed of 55-60mph until Temecula and even with stop and go traffic through the Temecula Valley I got 15mpg average! No wiggling or snaking, decent tailer style handling and stopping (no trailer breaks) worked fine though I was very cautious to give myself pleanty of room.

Looks like I have a decent Tow vehicle

Mmagus,
I used to own a Jeep Cherokee, probably one of my favorite cars of all time. But when we got into restoring cars and had to tow stuff around we sold it to buy a F250. Bottom line is: just because you can doesn't mean it's a good idea.
You have a short wheel base, 3,500 lb vehicle which already has marginal brakes towing a 3,500lbs worth of trailer+load. I'm not saying don't do it, just be careful.

I hope the Jeep works for you. It is good you are cautious. Are you talking about an enclosed toy hauler? If so,
with my Touareg V6 (all wheel drive), we tow the Porsche in an enclosed trailer and the combined weight is about 5500 lbs. We use a Prodigy brake controller. It sucks the gas, but does a great job towing. But our trailer is pretty short. When we had a wider trailer, there was more swaying!! Really spooked me, and we sold it and bought a narrower trailer. (Trailer is 16 ft)

Here is a funny picture of a V10 Touareg towing a very large boat.

Great picture Jeniffer! The trailer I tested with was an open flatbed type, dual axle and belongs to my Dad. The total weight of the trailer and car would be about 3700lbs which is a just over the rated stats on our Jeep (its the longer wheel base 4 door model). It gave me no issues at all towing that weight from San Diego to Murrieta, but if I were to use it much I would get the trailer breaks set up on it. Someday it would be nice to pick up a light weight trailer built for car hauling.

Mark

Mmagus wrote: ... The total weight of the trailer and car would be about 3700lbs which is a just over the rated stats on our Jeep (its the longer wheel base 4 door model). It gave me no issues at all towing that weight from San Diego to Murrieta, but if I were to use it much I would get the trailer breaks set up on it. Someday it would be nice to pick up a light weight trailer built for car hauling.
Mark

Mark:

Sounds like your beginning to stroll near the edge of the slippery slope. Careful, or you'll find yourself in a full-blown racer within a year or two.

As for pushing the rated stat's; two words of caution: main bearings. I learned the hard way pulling water trailers for work with a 4-cyl pickup. I routinely pulled "just over the rated limit" with my Nissan 4-banger figuring the rating was conservative, and the Nissan engines were bullet-proof. Well, around mile 175K I learned otherwise.

On a grey and cloudy morning I started my truck with the intention of going surfing, only to hear the tell-tale whine and rattle of crank bearings as they were going south. I took it to the Dealer, and sure enough my main and thrust bearings were shot in engine and trans. The guy at the shop said: "You must have been towing something pretty heavy for a long time to wear the bearings like that. You should consider a V-6 if you're going to pull that much weight."

Now I drive a Ford V-8.

So, be aware that the tow-ratings on vehicles are pretty close to what they say for long-term pulling.

As for trailer brakes ... OH YEAH! You want them. Nothing will make you "pull seat-vinyl" like going down-hill with a trailer and having your brakes fade/fail before you reach the bottom.

Just my thoughts and opinions. Other will vary.

Dan Chambers wrote:

Mmagus wrote: ... The total weight of the trailer and car would be about 3700lbs which is a just over the rated stats on our Jeep (its the longer wheel base 4 door model). It gave me no issues at all towing that weight from San Diego to Murrieta, but if I were to use it much I would get the trailer breaks set up on it. Someday it would be nice to pick up a light weight trailer built for car hauling.
Mark

Mark:

Sounds like your beginning to stroll near the edge of the slippery slope. Careful, or you'll find yourself in a full-blown racer within a year or two.

As for pushing the rated stat's; two words of caution: main bearings. I learned the hard way pulling water trailers for work with a 4-cyl pickup. I routinely pulled "just over the rated limit" with my Nissan 4-banger figuring the rating was conservative, and the Nissan engines were bullet-proof. Well, around mile 175K I learned otherwise.

On a grey and cloudy morning I started my truck with the intention of going surfing, only to hear the tell-tale whine and rattle of crank bearings as they were going south. I took it to the Dealer, and sure enough my main and thrust bearings were shot in engine and trans. The guy at the shop said: "You must have been towing something pretty heavy for a long time to wear the bearings like that. You should consider a V-6 if you're going to pull that much weight."

Now I drive a Ford V-8.

So, be aware that the tow-ratings on vehicles are pretty close to what they say for long-term pulling.

As for trailer brakes ... OH YEAH! You want them. Nothing will make you "pull seat-vinyl" like going down-hill with a trailer and having your brakes fade/fail before you reach the bottom.

Just my thoughts and opinions. Other will vary.

+1

We towed a trailer for Mission Bay Yacht Club for several years with a standard Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 4x4 (not a Grand Cherokee - the base 4-door model). The Jeep was "rated" as Class II (3500 lbs), and the trailer probably weighed around that fully loaded (triple-decker steel trailer with twelve 8-foot Sabots, plus masts, sails, other hardware, etc.).
We had no problems pulling it with the Jeep - the 4.0L had plenty of power, even on hills - but after about 3 years of towing (6-10 times/year), the automatic transmission began slipping when towing (not a good feeling) and we had to get rid of the Jeep at around 120k miles.
(We donated it - I wouldn't sell it to someone, knowing the tranny was getting ready to go.)
I was always very cautious (and nervous) going down hills - I could just picture what would happen if I had to stop suddenly or tried heavy braking with that behind me.
Note - In California, any trailer over 3000 lbs. GVW is required to have braking systems on at least two wheels, so we probably weren't strictly legit...

Just what you need is another $.02 but hey you asked for it. As a person that pulls alot of trailers I'd point to the replies that address stopping.Granted alot of vehicles can tow something but that in and of it's self doesn't address stopping safely. If you are even remotely close to the combined gross weight you'd be well served to get a larger tow vehicle. take for example the picture of the boat that was posted, what happens if a full brake application is required? I'm pretty sure throttle steer is out of the question. I'm sure you seen plenty of 5pm news shots of trailering carnage and commented "What was the guy thinking?" Perhaps ask a pro driver like Steve McKay what he thinks. Oh yeah ask Mr Murphy, he ALWAYS has an opinion that seems to defy our self imposed logic/justification. Hope all goes well.

RETII wrote:Just what you need is another $.02 but hey you asked for it. As a person that pulls alot of trailers I'd point to the replies that address stopping.Granted alot of vehicles can tow something but that in and of it's self doesn't address stopping safely. If you are even remotely close to the combined gross weight you'd be well served to get a larger tow vehicle. take for example the picture of the boat that was posted, what happens if a full brake application is required? I'm pretty sure throttle steer is out of the question. I'm sure you seen plenty of 5pm news shots of trailering carnage and commented "What was the guy thinking?" Perhaps ask a pro driver like Steve McKay what he thinks. Oh yeah ask Mr Murphy, he ALWAYS has an opinion that seems to defy our self imposed logic/justification. Hope all goes well.

Really valid point here that I was about to make, so I will just second it.
Trailer manufacturers are optimistic about weight; kind of like race car builders.
Your trailer is heavier than it says, and your car is heavier than you think.
I towed a 2000lb 914 on a 950lb single axle trailer with a '90 Toyota 4-Runner.
(3500 lb max towing)
But, when you add gas cans, tool boxes and spare everything add another 800 pounds.
It towed fine until I tried climbing a real grade like the grapevine or 15N before the 138 exit.
Not great, but fine.
Stopping? Not so good... more like slowed down; slowly.
Didn't want to plow a minivan full of kids cause I couldn't stop fast enough.

I now have a '06 F-150 with aftermarket add ons for towing and it is a totally comfortable drive/tow.
Goes up anything, will pass and stop.
BTW- I think 1500lbs is the most you can tow in the jeep w/o trailer brakes.
Check your owners manual.

Thanks for all the input folks! I really apreciate it.

Mark

Towing with a Jeep? Check this guy out. http://www.break.com/index/camper-stuck-in-narrow-alley.html

gocart wrote:Towing with a Jeep? Check this guy out. http://www.break.com/index/camper-stuck-in-narrow-alley.html

That's pretty funny. Another lesson in this movie is, don't have your buddies around when you do something stupid

Here is another towing video with Touareg and you think that boat was big LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-6veVu1upE

Wow! If only you could buy them in California! (NO V10 Diesels in CA)

When we bought our 20' enclosed car trailer to haul our Austin-Healey, we had a 4 L Jeep Grand Cherokee. We pulled it from Boston to Utah and back, then to Michigan and back and New York and back. Even though we had top end trailer brakes and load equalizing hitch and a rood wing, it was CLEARLY not a big enough tow vehicle. As Steve said, with all of the "other" stuff you haul, you quickly get over the rated limits. We couldn't even break the speed limit in several states!

You will quickly kill the transmission on anything not built to take the load, not to mention very short brake life and engine life.

The Tahoe is marginal even though it is rated for the weight. It is still not safe. Our next tow vehicle will be rated at least for 10k lbs to tow a 6,500 lb trailer and car!
Unless I can afford a bigger trailer, then we go for the 18k lb tow vehicle!

ChuckS wrote:Wow! If only you could buy them in California! (NO V10 Diesels in CA)

When we bought our 20' enclosed car trailer to haul our Austin-Healey, we had a 4 L Jeep Grand Cherokee. We pulled it from Boston to Utah and back, then to Michigan and back and New York and back. Even though we had top end trailer brakes and load equalizing hitch and a rood wing, it was CLEARLY not a big enough tow vehicle. As Steve said, with all of the "other" stuff you haul, you quickly get over the rated limits. We couldn't even break the speed limit in several states!

You will quickly kill the transmission on anything not built to take the load, not to mention very short brake life and engine life.

The Tahoe is marginal even though it is rated for the weight. It is still not safe. Our next tow vehicle will be rated at least for 10k lbs to tow a 6,500 lb trailer and car!
Unless I can afford a bigger trailer, then we go for the 18k lb tow vehicle!

Chuck: I think you need to start thinking ... Freightliner!

Or maybe, Mack. (Something about having a Bulldog on the radiator cap just appeals to me.)

2 words.......trans. cooler