PCA SDR

There was quite a bit of discussion at the June board meeting regarding allowing non-member and/or X cars to drive at autocrosses.

At the last AX there was a non-member driver who was a neighbor of a board member who drove a "hot-rod Japanese import with straight pipes." A significant number of members were dis-pleased by his noise level and driving skill.

Our Standing Rules say:

-Members may enter cars other than Porsches in Autocrosses, DEs and Time Trials with the prior consent of the event chair.

-Non-members may drive in their own vehicles of any make with the consent of the event chair. Non-members must...comply with all event rules. Additionally, they must have previous autocross experience and pass a check ride.

Thus, at autocross we are not equipped to teach drivers in X cars, and we are not interested in creating noise violations due to X cars (or our own cars). In the future, both cases will result in the driver being invited to leave the event.

The last two years have been difficult in the economy and we have seen our attendance at AX fall from 110-120 cars to 70-80 cars. We need 90-100 cars to break-even when all expenses are included, both direct costs such as lot rental and indirect costs such as equipment replacement and trophies.

In past years, losses in one part of the club were offset by gains in other areas, but that is not the case now. Driving events often carried other areas, and the Witness was also a net generator of funds for club purposes. These areas no longer generate positive cash-flows.

The club board voted early this year to commit to operate at a break-even or small positive cash flow and not to operate the club at a loss. In order to meet this goal, cuts were made in every area of our operation, from driving, to Witness size, to social event support. When the economy recovers and attendance picks up, we can expand support of those areas, but it is not possible now without a much higher fee structure.

So, back to AX. The options were to raise fees significantly or cut back the number of events to drive up attendance at each remaining event. Instead, the board requested that the AX chairs seek out experienced drivers from other clubs to "fill-out" our AX events, in hopes of bringing us to break even. We felt members would rather share the track than pay higher fees or have reduced events. It won't be forever, but will be until we can support the costs of the event with our own members.

If we were wrong about this approach, please let us know. Don't be shy to make a proposal to the board. If you would be willing to pay extra, don't hesitate to do that. If you can live with a well-mannered non-P car on the track, be thankful someone else is helping to pay for your fun and allowing us to hold these events during a recession. If you see an X-car driver you like, you might even thank them. As a side note, DE and Time Trials have operated many years with a P-car/X-car format, and very successfully.

Warmest regards,

Curt

In the past, we have allowed non members to compete in their first AX with us, membership being required after that. (Tim's "rent a racer" program comes to mind)
This has encouraged some number of newbies to "dip their toes in the water" for little investment, and hopefully has generated a few new members/AX participants.
Is this practice outlawed from now on?

Dave: I'm not familiar with that practice, but it is not required by our rules.

I'll edit here and add:

Being a member is a bit like having a discount card for AX. If you drive 10 AX'es per year, you will pay $50 extra as a non-member. There is a 10% surcharge for non-members at AX, and many pay at the trailer, which costs them an additional $20 on top of the non-member fee.

Dave, there has never been any formal program whereby non-members are allowed their first AX without membership but require membership to continue. This may have been happening and subsequently become some kind of "tribal knowledge" thing but (at least since 1996) there has never been such a board or rules sanctioned program.

Marie:

Thanks for your input. It is appreciated. And so are you. In fact, just about ten more exactly like you and we won't need any X cars at AX.

Curt

Dave, there has never been any formal program whereby non-members are allowed their first AX without membership but require membership to continue. This may have been happening and subsequently become some kind of "tribal knowledge" thing but (at least since 1996) there has never been such a board or rules sanctioned program.

Official, sanctioned, or not, I believe it's been happening, and I think it's a good idea in the interest of attracting new members.
BTW I'm with Marie: If we need to increase the entry fees, so be it. Try to find another program as well run at any cost.......good luck.......

AS SOME SAY +1,MARIE MADE A VERY VALID POINT.I'M IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH HER.

mariegrosjean wrote:Curt,

I understand the dilemma with AX from the economic standpoint. However, my concern is that it’s going to turn into another OCR, with tons of X classes who are grandfathered in, and then Porsche drivers like myself get denied AX entry! This is why I drove my very first AX with SDR Oct 24 of last year, because I could not get into my own region’s event, and I have to say, SDR welcomed me with open arms and made me want to come back again and again, despite the fact that I live 5 miles from El Toro, I would drive 80+ miles in the early a.m. to Qualcomm any day! The sense of camaraderie is so much higher at SDR, in my opinion, because it IS all Porsches. And, this is partially why I left OCR and joined SDR recently. To me, when it’s a high population of non-Porsches like at OCR, it feels like an SCCA event, not a PORSCHE Club event.

I grew up in PCA Zone 1, the Connecticut Valley Region, going to all sorts of AX’s, track events, etc, with my Dad, a 35-year PCA member, and I did this while I was too young to drive even. I cannot ever remember non-Porsches coming to events! I think that is why there is the name PORSCHE in the Porsche Club of America.

Please don’t turn SDR into OCR/SCCA, where will I go next?!?! I will gladly pay more in fees to keep it PORSCHE.
I’m sure some will disagree with me but whatever, that’s my $0.02 for ya!

I don't think the problem is X-cars, but having X-cars to the exclusion of Porsches, or having so many that the Porsche flavor is lost.
We regularly have a few X-cars at time trials and DE's without major problems.
I think we should prioritize who we want to attend:
1 Members driving Porsches
2 Members driving other cars
3 Non-members driving Porsches
4 Non-members driving other cars

We have a much higher capacity than what we are using, we have had as many as 150 at a Zone 8 event in the past.
We have been "spoiled" by having a great facility with high attendance traditionally and not needing to invite other cars. Many regions, not just OCR need lots of other cars to have an autocross.

At one point before switching to Motorsports Registration we did not allow non-members to pre-register. Which automatically had them paying higher fees, another inducement for them to become members.
Don't let one bad experience stop other drivers from enjoying a fun autocross. We have had members who had loud cars and were poor drivers in the past

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, there can be a lot of good to come from having more than just members driving their Porsche at an autocross.

Greg

Concur with Greg.
However, there is another reason to try to keep attendance over the 100 mark - corner working.
When there are fewer than 100 attendees, it is difficult to staff all the corners, plus the gate and start/finish. When there is a big track with lots of turns (like 10-12 major turns), you need 88-100 persons to staff everything, unless you want some people to work twice.
The alternative is to have fewer corners, and then somebody winds up covering a LOT of ground in the West lot.
Also, when we do have 110+ attendees, the people that do a lot of the work (throwing the track, tech, etc.) can be excused from corner working. When we have 90 or so, everyone can plan on working corners, even if you are working other tasks at the event.

As long as we never get to the OCR point where non-members with X cars can displace members with Porsches, I don't have a problem with X car attendees. Of course, they need to comply with noise and behavior regulations, just like the rest of us.

I tend to agree with Greg's prioritization list. We just need to be clear to ANY newcomers (members and non-members) what our rules are.

I have been out of commission since April, and am so desperate to get on a track I am thinking about buying Konis for my wife's BMW and mounting RA-1's on her wheels. (I promise not to launch a wheel like a certain Mercedes driver ).

Kim Crosser wrote:Concur with Greg.
However, there is another reason to try to keep attendance over the 100 mark - corner working.
When there are fewer than 100 attendees, it is difficult to staff all the corners, plus the gate and start/finish. When there is a big track with lots of turns (like 10-12 major turns), you need 88-100 persons to staff everything, unless you want some people to work twice.
The alternative is to have fewer corners, and then somebody winds up covering a LOT of ground in the West lot.
Also, when we do have 110+ attendees, the people that do a lot of the work (throwing the track, tech, etc.) can be excused from corner working. When we have 90 or so, everyone can plan on working corners, even if you are working other tasks at the event.

As long as we never get to the OCR point where non-members with X cars can displace members with Porsches, I don't have a problem with X car attendees. Of course, they need to comply with noise and behavior regulations, just like the rest of us.

I agree with Greg and Kim here. Marie's point is well taken, but until we get back to the 120+ attendance level, there is not going to be a problem with turning away Porsche drivers because of too many X entries, as has been the case with OCR. We have the facility and equipment to accommodate that many drivers easily without losing too many laps for each car, and the need for increased revenue and workers is paramount at the moment.

Increasing fees in this economic climate is going to be a self-defeating proposition, losing more drivers in the process. $50 is about as much as is reasonable to charge for an autox, and the corner-working situation will just get worse. Without the incentive to be excused from corner-working, some volunteers are already less motivated to get up early to help out with setup and tech.

TT

+3? 4? on Greg's list. With thought and an addition/proposal.

The thought:
Allowing non-member X drivers could be a way to bring new folks in. I have wanted to invite several friends, to come experience the club, but since they are not Porsche owners I have held off extending it. Additionally several friends have come out for the day to watch and have said 'man I'd like to try that." My answer has always been, "well 944's can be bought reasonably...get one and come on out!" Being able to invite them in a car of their own might bring them a step closer.

The Proposal:

Any non-member X class MUST have an instructor with them at ALL times.

At the last AX the yellow car was ran just before me in a practice session. He spun in the slaloms. I was just entering them and caught the corner worker out of the corner of my eye flagging. I got on the breaks as fast as I could but was not completely slowed because I was in the slaloms by that time and didn't want to spin into him. Though I hadn't stopped fully he jumped back on the track in front of me. Fortunately I was continuing to slow and there was room, perhaps they did have an instructor at the time and just didn't' listen well, or perhaps they were told to re-enter and my perception of the spacing was just off a bit. I am unsure. But with a very small changing of how that moment went and things could have gone very wrong. The point being, we have to do our best to make sure they are following the "SDC way" when we let them on the course, and an instructor in the car with them will help.

Pastor Mark

Do the math (and assuming that $5,500. is the *magic number) : If 110 drivers pay $50. each we gross $5,500. To get the same results with 90 drivers each driver would have to pay $62.... Leaving $30. to pay for the morning Starbucks (which I understand is another problem this year). In fact if we made it an even $65. we'd have enough to cover the beer and the awards too. Not whole heartedly suggesting that we do this. Just a thought.

* I'm using $5,500. as the "magic number", and the 110 vs. 90 body count based on what I'm hearing from others (see other comments within this stream). If that number is not accurate, the formula just needs to be adjusted to make the numbers work.

Hi Everyone,

Well, as a member of OCR, I'd like to add a little info that may or may not be apropos to the issue being confronted by SDR. I'd like it understood that I am not speaking on behalf of OCR and these are my thoughts alone. It is true that many times OCR has turned away late registrants from it autocross events because the number of entrants exceeds the limit for the event, particularly during the winter months with less hours of daylight. The OCR events have become very popular because they are well-run and because many feel that the El Toro venue is one of the best in the country. For the June 13th event there are already over 100 registered entrants and the list is growing daily.

What may not be known here is that OCR requires that all entrants either be a PCA member or drive a Porsche at the event and does not just allow anyone to enter the events. Similar to SDR, other X-car drivers can be allowed with the approval of the event chairman. Now as Marie has stated, there are some nationally-known SCCA drivers that are allowed to participate because they were instrumental in helping OCR get its autocross program off the ground four or five years ago and who also are expert instructors. What has not been stated is that most of the X-class drivers are actually affiliate members of PCA, even though they personally do not own a Porsche. This is in compliance with the PCA membership requirements, so technically, as PCA members, they can enter the OCR events and drive their X-class cars.

I can understand and appreciate how many Porsche drivers would want to have a Porsche-only event, and I can tell you personally it is a little humbling to have a C5 Corvette regularly be the quickest car at our events. But, I think most OCR drivers have a desire to elevate their autocross driving skills as much as possible and having SCCA national champions and other great drivers at our events to help us accomplish that is greatly appreciated by me and most other OCR members.

Anyway, my wife and I have always enjoyed coming down to the SDR autocross events and have had a great experience each time. In my opinion, the OCR autocross success story would not be what it is today without the example and high-standards set by SDR for your own events.

Rod Taylor

I think Greg and Marie both make good points. I enjoy having X-cars around to watch them and compare to our delightful Porsches... at the same time I have noticed at el toro that the X-car drivers tend to take the timed runs more seriously than most and need re-run after re-run due to minor disturbances on the track (like a slalom cone 2" off the box). I suspect that is due to many X-car folks being scca drivers used to 3-runs and done, all for time. So non-member or new member X-car folks should have some careful "hand holding" from experienced members/instructors until they get the feel for the mentality of the club... and certainly members with Porsches should get priority as capacity limits approach. The upside is that we have enough corner workers and are getting some + revenue into the club, and the downside being that the December AX might not feel as special.... works for me.