PCA SDR

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:25 pm**

A lot of you autocrossers do not drive in our Time Trial series and I was wondering if you could tell me your personal reasons why not.

I've heard there are some good AX drivers who might appreciate the incredible amount of seat time we get (a whole AX season's worth in one TT), the ability to measure your improvement from season to season on a track that doesn't change, and the ability to repeatedly practice every corner on a track about 75-100 times in one weekend.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:51 pm**

Jack,

Reason #1: I bought my 996 new in Nov 2003 specifically to autoX and TT (which I told the dealer) . . . ever since new the thing has smoked "like it's on fire" when I drive it "spiritedly" (which has been every autoX, some of you witnessed it) and I'm now on my 3rd rear main seal leak. In the last conversation with the dealer regarding these problems, the word abuse came up, so basically I don't want to give the dealer any more excuses not to fix my car or honor the warranty.

Reason #2: I'm in the middle of prepping the F car for some TT's . . . hopefully you'll still be open to "other cars" when I'm done . . . I have a spare motor and g'box I'm rebuilding . . . in stock "smog" format she's got no grunt.

Reason #3: Trailering . . I've posed this question before . . . I'd be interested in buying a multicar trailer if somone else would tow it? . . . maybe it could be a biz for somone? I appreciate the offers to tow a broken car back, but I really don't want to worry about getting the car there or back . . . just want to show up and drive!!!!

There's my reasons.

Sean

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:07 pm**

sean996 wrote:Reason #1: I bought my 996 new in Nov 2003 specifically to autoX and TT (which I told the dealer) . . . ever since new the thing has smoked "like it's on fire" when I drive it "spiritedly" (which has been every autoX, some of you witnessed it) and I'm now on my 3rd rear main seal leak. In the last conversation with the dealer regarding these problems, the word abuse came up, so basically I don't want to give the dealer any more excuses not to fix my car or honor the warranty.

Which dealer are you going to? I know myself and others have received a more-than-fair shake from Pioneer.

sean996 wrote:Reason #2: I'm in the middle of prepping the F car for some TT's . . . hopefully you'll still be open to "other cars" when I'm done . . . I have a spare motor and g'box I'm rebuilding . . . in stock "smog" format she's got no grunt.

You wont be able to run for points. But you are more than welcome to bring it out. Speaking of F-cars. Have you seen the new 430? Fricken Launch Control in a street car! How awesome would THAT be?!?!

sean996 wrote:Reason #3: Trailering . . I've posed this question before . . . I'd be interested in buying a multicar trailer if somone else would tow it? . . . maybe it could be a biz for somone? I appreciate the offers to tow a broken car back, but I really don't want to worry about getting the car there or back . . . just want to show up and drive!!!!

Have you talked to some of the local shops like MOM, Scott's, etc? They have trailers and might be able to work something out to bring the car up, support it, and bring it back. Just a thought.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:13 pm**

Main reason for me is the distance one has to travel and time it takes to TT. It's too much of a pain to schlep tires/wheels and the car up to places like Buttonwillow, spend the night etc.

Also, I am nervous about doing serious body work damage to my car in an off track excursion.

I think to seriously TT, you have to consider the car a disposable racing car and not worry about the paint.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:50 pm**

MikeD wrote:
sean996 wrote:Reason #1: I bought my 996 new in Nov 2003 specifically to autoX and TT (which I told the dealer) . . . ever since new the thing has smoked "like it's on fire" when I drive it "spiritedly" (which has been every autoX, some of you witnessed it) and I'm now on my 3rd rear main seal leak. In the last conversation with the dealer regarding these problems, the word abuse came up, so basically I don't want to give the dealer any more excuses not to fix my car or honor the warranty.

Which dealer are you going to? I know myself and others have received a more-than-fair shake from Pioneer.

It is Pioneer . . . . the problem with them is they don't want to even acknowledge the smoking problem even exists . . . they had me do an oil consumption test which was a complete waste of time . . . they basically told me to try arbitration since I'm on my 3rd rear main leak and they don't know what the smoking is caused by . . . funny that several independent shops have been seeing this problem and have repaired it.

sean996 wrote:Reason #2: I'm in the middle of prepping the F car for some TT's . . . hopefully you'll still be open to "other cars" when I'm done . . . I have a spare motor and g'box I'm rebuilding . . . in stock "smog" format she's got no grunt.

You wont be able to run for points. But you are more than welcome to bring it out. Speaking of F-cars. Have you seen the new 430? Fricken Launch Control in a street car! How awesome would THAT be?!?!

It is sick!!!! I thought I was "on the list" for a while but it was a typical salespig that told me this . . . I guess they just can't break the mold as liars and snakes. When it's P's and F's they're selling, they just use the word "passion" and "race bred" more, but at the end of the day, they're technically and ETHICALLY challenged . . . that's why they sell cars (but they tell you they do it because they're "passionate" . . . barf!!!!). Next time I'm close to parting with $100k, I'm going to tell the salespig that I'm going to tape record the transaction . . . similar to what telephone companies do. I can't wait to see the look on its face.

sean996 wrote:Reason #3: Trailering . . I've posed this question before . . . I'd be interested in buying a multicar trailer if somone else would tow it? . . . maybe it could be a biz for somone? I appreciate the offers to tow a broken car back, but I really don't want to worry about getting the car there or back . . . just want to show up and drive!!!!

Have you talked to some of the local shops like MOM, Scott's, etc? They have trailers and might be able to work something out to bring the car up, support it, and bring it back. Just a thought.

I was talking to somone who would trailer my car up and "support" me for around $400-$500/weekend. The support is a bonus but right now I don't even want or need it. That's probably pretty reasonable though since he wouldn't be driving and he's no dummy . . .

Sean

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:00 pm**

Just found out about the group from your earlier post on Monday, you guys ARE up in my neck of the woods as I'm in Pasadena area.

It looks intreaguing but I thought I could use some AX seat time before I started hustling my car at an even faster clip. The ease of entry into your group is pretty simple: no special equipment other than a helmet. Rules were straightforward. Price seemed fair. Other than schedule conflicts at the moment it looked pretty cool.

I will agree with Bob about being concerned about scratching the paint.

On the whole, I'll probably do it sometime soon.
Bryan

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:14 pm**

bryanearll wrote:Just found out about the group from your earlier post on Monday, you guys ARE up in my neck of the woods as I'm in Pasadena area.

It looks intreaguing but I thought I could use some AX seat time before I started hustling my car at an even faster clip. The ease of entry into your group is pretty simple: no special equipment other than a helmet. Rules were straightforward. Price seemed fair. Other than schedule conflicts at the moment it looked pretty cool.

I will agree with Bob about being concerned about scratching the paint.

On the whole, I'll probably do it sometime soon.
Bryan

Bryan:

I agree with you about seat time. Get lots of it. The faster, multiple-lap events are a bit different from A-X driving, especially when multiple cars are on the track right next to you.

You might need verification from the Tech Inspection guys, or the Chair, but I believe you'll need a mounted fire extinguisher, and a 5-point harness, along with a Snell 1995 or newer SA rated helmet in order to run the big tracks. Again, check with the Tech and Chair people about this. For a complete list of required safety equipment at Zone 8 events, go to the Zone 8 Competition Rules page on the web site, to be sure.

BTW: this isn't a DE at the Q. It's a Time Trial at a Big Track (well sort-of big track). Safety is really important here.

Just my thoughts.

Dan C.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:16 pm**

Jack,

I only ran about half the TT's last year and expect something similar this year. Main problem for me is just conflicts with other activities. AX takes 1 day, TT takes 3 days. That's why the QDE's have some appeal. Now if we could just get a track in San Diego. . . .

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:18 pm**

Jack,

I only ran about half the TT's last year and expect something similar this year. Main problem for me is just conflicts with other activities. AX takes 1 day, TT takes 3 days. That's why the QDE's have some appeal. Now if we could just get a track in San Diego. . . .

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:18 pm**

no special equipment other than a helmet

I thought a TT required 5-point harnesses (both seats if you took an instructor) and a fire extinguisher as well?

I would be potentially interested in doing TTs at the Q, but the expense (and pain) of installing a Brey-Krause extender and replacing my power seat with a shell in my daily driver to meet the "broomstick" rule is a bit much (5-points and an extinguisher I could deal with).

TT and DE events at the Q seem only marginally more hazardous than our AX events - has there been any thought/discussion about reducing the equipment requirements for these, or am I underestimating the risks?

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:21 pm**

Jack,

I am working on it

This week I finally ordered a race rollbar (savety is #1). My car will not be ready on tiime for Streets of Willow plus I need new tires before.

Costs (tires, brakes, event) has probably been my main reaon for not attending TT. But, Vince signed my Competition Permit and I will be ready to go soon.

So, my first TT will be California Festival of Speed.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:22 pm**

sean996 wrote:
MikeD wrote:
sean996 wrote:Reason #3: Trailering . . I've posed this question before . . . I'd be interested in buying a multicar trailer if somone else would tow it? . . . maybe it could be a biz for somone? I appreciate the offers to tow a broken car back, but I really don't want to worry about getting the car there or back . . . just want to show up and drive!!!!

Have you talked to some of the local shops like MOM, Scott's, etc? They have trailers and might be able to work something out to bring the car up, support it, and bring it back. Just a thought.

I was talking to somone who would trailer my car up and "support" me for around $400-$500/weekend. The support is a bonus but right now I don't even want or need it. That's probably pretty reasonable though since he wouldn't be driving and he's no dummy . . .

Another idea is to rent a truck. The club rents a nice diesel 350 from Mira Mar rental (or something). It's not cheap as I understand it. But it's cheaper than buying your own. I've been meaning to contact them about renting one to go to Portland in June (it'll just be way to much for my Range Rover).

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:37 pm**

Jack:

Here are some personal reasons I had from last year:

1) TIME.
A day up, two days on the track, drive home late that night .... or the next day.
That's a big time commitment. A lot of A-X'ers stay "at home" because it's just one long day, and they go home to spouse and family that night with just a taste of "competing."
2)MONEY.
Time Away from work (the up and back thing), track fees that run "a couple of hundred" bucks, hotel costs, dining costs, gas, it adds up, especially to the "novice" competitor who's looking for a little fun. (A-X's are a really good deal for the 'fun factor.')
3)CAR PARTS & WEAR/TEAR
A-X's are a little hard on tires ..... and maybe brakes, but for the most part, the car isn't being driven hard for 16 solid hours like at a TT. So, a season of A-X's might cause as much wear & tear as a single TT (well maybe 2 TT's). So, a lot of A-X'ers just don't want to "go through" that much track-related parts, and wear & tear, when there's an A-X every 5 to 6 weeks. And they don't have to think about replacing parts or more frequent fluid changes (oil, brake fluid, trans lube, coolant[GASP!!! :shock:

]).

So, for 2004, these were my big three reasons fo doing more A-X's and less TT's. Of course, being the A-X Chair had a significant impact on time. That factor is null this year

.

I'm saving my pennies and praying to the Scheduling Gods right now to allow me more time for TT's this year. I'm hoping to do more than just one event away.

See you on the 22nd

.

Dan

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:35 pm**

sean996 wrote:Jack,

Reason #1: I bought my 996 new in Nov 2003 specifically to autoX and TT (which I told the dealer) . . . ever since new the thing has smoked "like it's on fire" when I drive it "spiritedly" (which has been every autoX, some of you witnessed it) and I'm now on my 3rd rear main seal leak. In the last conversation with the dealer regarding these problems, the word abuse came up, so basically I don't want to give the dealer any more excuses not to fix my car or honor the warranty.

Sean

Sean, If you told the dealer you were going to AX and TT your car I am surprised they honored any failed parts at all :wink:

. I have heard from numerous Porsche repair facilities the 996 motor is junk and not meant for ax etc. if you can beleive that. Just my .02 but if you can find a used early car with the work already done, big motor, suspension etc. I think you would have a blast attending the TT series, and in my opinion it would be more reliable than the 996.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:06 pm**

Sean, If you told the dealer you were going to AX and TT your car I am surprised they honored any failed parts at all :wink:

. I have heard from numerous Porsche repair facilities the 996 motor is junk and not meant for ax etc. if you can beleive that. Just my .02 but if you can find a used early car with the work already done, big motor, suspension etc. I think you would have a blast attending the TT series, and in my opinion it would be more reliable than the 996.[/quote]

Well right now I don't mind building the F car 'cause I have the spare motor, etc. and I have the time and I need to keep busy. Oh yeah, and 'cause I wanna go beat up on P cars :wink:

It seems an early all car set up is probably going to cost me at least $40k . . . yes, no????? I know my F car inside and out, . . . P's I don't know at all (except the flaws of the 996

) and the P parts don't seem any cheaper. Time will tell whether it'll be worthy, but it sure is gonna be fun R & D'ing it.

Sean

PCA SDR

Question for Autocrossers

Question for Autocrossers