Introduction to Time-Trials?

[Carl Scragg]

As an introduction to driving on a real racetrack, some clubs run introductory lapping sessions for newbies during the lunch break of their regular time-trials. The lapping sessions are conducted single-file behind a pace car, which continues to increase speeds as the participants get comfortable with the track and the racing line. Since speeds and passing are controlled, stock belts and helmets are all that is required.

A 20- or 30-minute lapping session can give you a pretty good idea whether or not time-trials are your cup of tea. Participants tend to come off the track either (1) vowing never to do that again , or (2) eager to buy the safety equipment so that they can get involved with time-trials.

Do you think there might be sufficient interest among our autocrossers to justify trying this at some future event? Might this be a way to get more people involved in TT’s?

[Gary Burch]

Carl
Most of thge tracks are a lonnnng ways away. Maybe too long to drive up for a 20 minute lunch run.

[David J Marguglio]

Carl: I think this is a great idea, however Gary has a valid point. Perhaps we could implement at QDE's?

[Mike]

Agree something needs to be done to encourage more AX racers to try a DE or TT. The doom and gloom........
This issue becomes time critical if the Q parking lot were to be replaced with a multi story complex in 2 years. A worst case scenario is that we may only have 12 events this year and another 12 next year at the Q, approx 24 events remaining at the Q? note loss of AX income to the club. Perhaps a new AX venue can be found (Fontana?) but that’s only an hour away from WSIR? When the Q lot is gone hopefully AX racers would choose to DE/TT and not just stop entering driving events.

I agree with Carl's concept.
Imho simply selling lunch time laps creates an under supervised liability to the club and first time driver. This format really provides little benefit to the first time DE/TT driver. SDR PCA can do better.

What if the DE/TT lunch time laps were preceded with a 1 hour class room on that track's line and the rules of DE/TT. This could be followed by a ride in an instructor’s car on a Saturday morning session. Followed by a short debrief and then a lunch time ducks in a row session. The ducks in a row would have say 6 Students in their cars following an instructor. At a designated passing area the lead student car would point by the 5 students in trail so that each student could have a chance to directly follow the instructor. This also gives AX racers a sample of what it’s like to share the track with other Porsches.
If you decide to try something like this, I'd be happy to help.

[Gary Burch]

Mike

That is a really good idea. We have 2 DE's scheduled for the first 1/2 of the year. It shouldn't be too hard to put the wheels in motion. And maybe even make it free.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Being the rules guy I have tons of trivial rules crammed in my head and I thought you would like hear this one...

This is from the SDR D.E. rules page. We have our own DE rules so we can change them for non-zone events to suit our needs
Read them here
http://www.pcasdr.org/drivered/RegionDE ... 502rev.doc

Here is a paragraph that I thought might be interesting to this thread (copied from the rules page)

E) A “Taste of the Track” program may be implemented. This will allow a person to ride in the passenger seat of an instructor’s car during a DE track session for instruction only. The participant will register for the event, pay an entrance fee, and sign the insurance waiver. The event master must approve all participants and instructors for this program.

This seems to be the answer for this situattion...No?

[Rsylvestri]

I think the main purpose is to let the newbie (me or any other ax'er) feel the difference from the drivers seat and not as a passenger! The first time I was with an instructor @ an AX, I really didn't grasp what I was suppose to be learning. More like HOLD ON!
I think promoting the Q DE a little more to the AX group and let them make the decision to try the bigger events.
As said before most of the TT/DE's are a long drive for 20-40 minutes worth of seat time and drive home the same day.
Any AX's out there that want more seat time should REALLY try a DE I know I'm up for the next one. my.02 Rick

[Mike]

This is from the SDR D.E. rules page. We have our own DE rules so we can change them for non-zone events to suit our needs
Read them here
http://www.pcasdr.org/drivered/RegionDE ... 502rev.doc

Here is a paragraph that I thought might be interesting to this thread (copied from the rules page)

E) A “Taste of the Track” program may be implemented. This will allow a person to ride in the passenger seat of an instructor’s car during a DE track session for instruction only. The participant will register for the event, pay an entrance fee, and sign the insurance waiver. The event master must approve all participants and instructors for this program.

This seems to be the answer for this situation...No?

Thanks Steve, I am not up on what regulations must be followed. Though your paragraph suits this concept well.
Yes ride with an instructor in the DE session.
Register for the event.
Sign waiver.
Pay an entrance fee, perhaps prorated to reflect the small amount of track time they receive? Or pay in full and receive half off your next DE/TT?

The regulation above only refers to a DE session. Is there guidance regarding use of the track during lunch time when the track is cold?
I would add tech the student’s car.
Question, can a student’s car that passed an AX tech to be permitted to do a lunch time taste of the track?

[MikeD]

I like the idea also.

In addition to the QDE. Maybe we could use the lunch break during the FoS? Right now it's being used for parade laps. But if the "Intro to DE/TT" serves the club better? Of course now that the FoS is not in our control it may be more difficult to get done.

[Gary Burch]

I agree with Rick that to get the true feel of a DE you need to be behind the wheel. I think we could establish the guidelines and an appropriate fee for a lunch/cold track intro session. If we could get a few instructors to give up part of their lunch break they could ride along with the students. It feels safer this way than having them follow an instructor. Since there would be no corner workers.

[Mike]

It feels safer this way than having them follow an instructor. Since there would be no corner workers.

True Gary, if we had enough instructors you would have both a lead car showing the line, braking points and pacing the group, plus an instructor in every car.

What is the goal of the lunch time laps program?
Imho I see the pace car in the lunch time 10? contineous laps being at very slow speeds, allowing slow motion point bye passing and closer intervals while cornering. Again slow speeds; this would not be a thrill ride for experienced AX racers. This concept is just a DE ice breaker. Designed so that an AX driver might experience how much fun it is to run multiple laps while sharing the track safely with other cars.

In a case where you did not have the instructor resources for one in every car during the lunch time laps might the following apply?

Imho in the lunch time laps example an instructor in every car may not be required because the lunch time laps are not about teaching car control as in the AX/DE or TT events. DE/TT has an important new challenge/distraction of multiple laps and multiple cars that require increased situational awareness. Certainly at speed in a DE session the new DE drivers (along with the experienced drivers in the same session ) benefit from an extra set of eyes in the student’s car.

Many ways to approach this....staying flexible and basing the solution on the student demand might work. That is if you only have 2 students no problem. If you had 6 students you might be inclined to reserve your instructors for the least qualified student’s cars.

Is the liability to the club acceptable that a racer with a safe AX record w/o instructor on board be permitted to follow a DE/TT instructor’s car during lunch time? Perhaps the event chair could be allowed to judge this case by case. For example could an AX instructor be trusted?

The ducks in a row is common training technique with other clubs, though I have not seen it used in SDR PCA.

Sorry for the long post, just that the lunch time concept is going to take the chairs/board some in depth conversation/coordination.
Again I'd be willing to help instruct this new group.

[Gary Burch]

I am saying the instructor ride along would only be for moral support and to keep the reins tight. Sometimes these lunch rides get out of hand, case in point the one at the FoS last year. I heard reports of people doing over a hundred. Granted that's a big track, but ...

With 10 cars max and probably more like 5or6 it would only take 20 minutes start to finish. So you might do 2 run sessions in the lunch hour. 1 with a ride along and 1 without. Same format, instructor leading.

[Chris Huck]

at lunch time were developed to be an income generator so the participants wouldn't need to pay higher rates.

They're generating about $2,000 per day, $6,000 total, so 250-300 drivers (racers and de'ers) can pay WAY less than what the track should command, given costs get over $30,000 per day for the event.

They've also helped create quite a bit of excitiment for the visitors too!

Would anyone be willing to buy 60 minutes on friday for $2,000 for 8-12-20(guessing) "students" to get a Taste of the Track?

[MikeD]

Gary: for "Ducks in a row" the cars are nose to tail. They must keep the exact pace as the lead car or be expelled (without refund). This is different from the Parade Laps normally done at FoS. The drivers are NOT free to roam the track as they please.

Chris: It was just a thought. And we are talking about charging for the "Intro to TT". $100 for a 1 hour instructional period and a 25 minute "Ducks in a Row" run session doesn't seem to high to me (heck I paid $125 for 3 laps in the back of a Champ car there once). Or if we limit it to 10 or 15 minutes as Gary suggests we could get twice as many for $50 a pop. My reasoning for suggesting FoS is:

A) California Speedway is the closest Big Track we do. An hour drive up for a 2 hour event might not seem all that unreasonable.

B) Doing ducks in a row at California Speedway an "exciting" event wereas Ducks in a row at a QDE might seem a bit ho-hum.

Just my $0.02.

[Gary Burch]

Mike we are going to have limited passing for the DE lunch runs. To get the feel for the event. So it wouldn't be a true "ducks in a row". That is why I thought of an instructor ride along on the firrst session. That way they could pass and be passed safely.