2012 Zone 8 Rules (again)

[tb911]

I've gone through the 2012 Zone 8 rules and adjusted for all the models using the weights from the Parade Competition Rules.

http://www.porscheclub.us/2012RulesUsingPCRs.pdf

Please review and let me know if this is an improvement.


thanks

[hmeeder]

Without looking too deeply yet, I see that you did catch the 1975 914-1.8 should have a lower basepoint due to emissions choked low HP and those boat anchor bumpers they put on the poor things.

Good catch! Now we will be ready for a flood of those now that their basepoints are more favorable!

[Dave Diamond]

So we should use these to adjust our 2012 class ratings as necessary? (I think it may push my boxster up a class -- but maybe with enough room for bigger tires without going up yet another class.)

[tb911]

Just put up another version at 10:45PM 3/20.

Caught a few consequences of the weight changes.

[Greg Phillips]

I've gone through the 2012 Zone 8 rules and adjusted for all the models using the weights from the Parade Competition Rules.

http://www.porscheclub.us/2012RulesUsingPCRs.pdf

Please review and let me know if this is an improvement.


thanks

Not sure it fixes much overall.

You need to look at the 1980-83 SC as they gain 200 pounds but no change in basepoints?

I think the GGR system utilized a single weight for each of the "models" they were lumping together as a group. All of the SC's had the same weight, all the '84-89 Carreras were the same, '86-88 944 turbos, etc.

If you are going to have a different weight for each year it becomes more complicated and also what will be the effect of our backdate rules?
What if I decide to backdate my SC to and earlier year and use the lighter weight?

Also again it depends on how the 2012 weight points are to be calculated. If we are using the present system, it is liable to have a greater effect than if we use my recommended system utilizing the power to weight formula.

And to throw a bigger wrench into the gears, you will need to look at the HP ratings used. See this month's Pano article and looking at the GGR HP ratings, they unfortunately switch back and forth between SAE(net) and DIN.
The SC are listed at 172 which is the SAE(net) rating. The Carreras are very schizophrenic, the '84 is 200 which is the SAE(net), the '85-86 are 207 which is the DIN number and the 87-89 are 217 (DIN). Thankfully, they never used the SAE gross numbers. The 964's got back and forth between 247 SAE and 250 DIN as do the 993 listings.

Greg

[tb911]

So we should use these to adjust our 2012 class ratings as necessary? (I think it may push my boxster up a class -- but maybe with enough room for bigger tires without going up yet another class.)

Let's see what a few of the critics in the crowd have to say before we say this is good-to-go, but yes, the intention is to be a "new and improved" set of base points.

[Greg Phillips]

Just put up another version at 10:45PM 3/20.

Caught a few consequences of the weight changes.

Our posts crossed in the ether, the later SC now has 220 basepoints.

Still need to look at the HP ratings now :^)

Greg

[tb911]

You need to look at the 1980-83 SC as they gain 200 pounds but no change in basepoints?

This was an oversight on my part, fixed with the second posting of the document

I think the GGR system utilized a single weight for each of the "models" they were lumping together as a group. All of the SC's had the same weight, all the '84-89 Carreras were the same, '86-88 944 turbos, etc.

yes, but there was significant complaints that the weights were wrong. GGR claims they are official, but there is no doubt that the PCRs have different weights. So I switched in hopes our membership is happier with these. At some point we have to agree on who the authority is and live with whatever they say.

If you are going to have a different weight for each year it becomes more complicated and also what will be the effect of our backdate rules?

I think we've all come to the conclusion that several things need to change: points for horsepower/engine swap, turbo boost, lowered weight, etc. These will be revamped for 2012, though I can't say exactly how soon this year.

And to throw a bigger wrench into the gears, you will need to look at the HP ratings used. See this month's Pano article and looking at the GGR HP ratings, they unfortunately switch back and forth between SAE(net) and DIN.

PCRs don't list horsepower -- so I don't have any authority other than the GGR rules or this Pano issue for them.

[tb911]

Ok -- posted yet another version, with HP changes based on the Pano article.

Keep in mind that these are just raw numbers from the formula. GGR did do a little manual adjusting here and there as they saw necessary to give similar base points to similar model years, and we can do the same. (For example, all the 356's are just arbitrarily given 100 base points.)

[Mmagus]

Well, now I know what to do with that spare 10 points I had left. Still in CC15 though, so it works for me!

Thanks for the great update Tom!

[Hotrod911T]

I have a few basic questions regarding the suspension modification points in the 2012 Zone 8 rules on torsion bar 911's. It appears that raised front spindles will cost you 20 points because raising the spindle requires re-welding on the strut, right? Does this apply to a factory RSR front strut that already has the relocated spindle height? Also, is there any reason why replacing the torsion bars with coil overs will not cost you any more points than having aftermarket torsion bars? There has to be some additional benefit that coil overs have over torsion bars considering the allowable increase in spring rates, etc.

Rod

[Kim Crosser]

Do the "base" points for the mid-engine cars include the 25-point penalty? If not, then this would seem to kick many Boxsters up a class.

[Sawfish]

Do the "base" points for the mid-engine cars include the 25-point penalty? If not, then this would seem to kick many Boxsters up a class.

Bump ?

[tb911]

Do the "base" points for the mid-engine cars include the 25-point penalty? If not, then this would seem to kick many Boxsters up a class.

You are correct that this is "raw" numbers- no massaging, so yes, this is prior to mid-engine points.

[tb911]

I have a few basic questions regarding the suspension modification points in the 2012 Zone 8 rules on torsion bar 911's. It appears that raised front spindles will cost you 20 points because raising the spindle requires re-welding on the strut, right? Does this apply to a factory RSR front strut that already has the relocated spindle height? Also, is there any reason why replacing the torsion bars with coil overs will not cost you any more points than having aftermarket torsion bars? There has to be some additional benefit that coil overs have over torsion bars considering the allowable increase in spring rates, etc.

Rod

You may have spotted a loop hole or two here. The way the rule is written, you will not need to take welding points for the factory RSR strut. Also, no additional points for converting to coil overs vs. beefing up your torsion bars. Perhaps we need some proposals to handle these two cases?