Advanced Autocross School

[Bill]

Does anyone know if any of the Zone 8 regions (or the POC) hold an 'Advanced Autocross School' for those who have been through the Performance Driving School and DE school and, more or less know the basics, but want to get faster.

Is that something the San Diego region would consider? It would probably appeal to fewer people but that might give the participants more seat and practice time......and, of course, cost a little more.

[Gunter]

Bill
Want to go faster?? POC schedules a "Racer Clinic" twice a year. You need to meet certain qualifications to participate but with PCA AX, DE and TT events on big tracks you can qualify. Next clinic is in December (http://www.porscheclub.com/) at Willow Springs. It is truly a very fun and important next step. Even if you never race it is an absolutely GREAT experience and you will get an incredible education in driving/racing from top instructors. Many of our PCASDR members have participated in the clinic and run events in both clubs . You will probably see a number of very familiar faces at the next clinic. Just do it...(sorry Nike)

[ttweed]

Does anyone know if any of the Zone 8 regions (or the POC) hold an 'Advanced Autocross School' for those who have been through the Performance Driving School and DE school and, more or less know the basics, but want to get faster.

Do you mean "advanced driving" or specifically "Autocross" skills, Bill? As Gunter says, the POC Racer's Clinic is a great prep for W2W club racing, if that is your desire or goal, and you will definitely add to your car control, race craft, and big track driving skills by attending it, but they are not focused on autocrossing. The only advanced school that I know of that is specifically aimed at the autocross genre of motorsports is the Evolution Performance Driving School (formerly the McKamey Autocross School) that puts on a 3-phase course in conjunction with various clubs around the country. There have been a few in LA/OC over the past years, but I don't think anyone has ever hosted one in San Diego lately. Looking at their current schedule I don't see anything closer than SF or Arizona this year.

I doubt that SDR has the ambition or resources available (like renting the Q and asking the instructor corps to contribute another whole weekend beyond the existing 2 PDS, the DE, and the TRSS schools) to add such a specialized event to the schedule. My personal suggestion would be to just get as much seat time as you can afford with a variety of clubs, including entering the nearby events other PCA regions, POC, and other clubs hold. Both SCCA and BMWCCA offer local events with experienced instructors that might help improve your AX skills.

TT

[Cajundaddy]

If you have completed the PDS and DE school you probably have the basics of the sport pretty well. The rest comes from seat time both behind the wheel and from the right seat with some of the masters of this sport found in PCA-SDR. Hit every event and make like a sponge. Speed will come and your times will drop quickly. Soon you will be sharing the coveted top 10 BRI with your instructors.

[Jad]

Or just find a top AX drivers and spend a day with them at the next AX. Most are really good and happy to teach you anything you want to learn. No matter what, seat time is key, so do this for several AX's or come out to a few of the smaller (sow, Fontana infield) DE's and TT's and learn more about your car.

I agree that the POC school is a good school, but I don't think it teaches any AX skills, it teaches racing skills which really are very different.

What specifically are you trying to learn, or where do you want to go faster?

[Bill]

Thank you all for your suggestions. The racing school sounds great and I would be interested in that eventually but right now I want to focus on my autocrossing skills. I think I know the car handling basics from the Performance Driving and DE schools and I agree that seat time is important. I have gone north to the OC AXes and been to most of the SDR events, including Streets of Willow, Chuckwalla, and Fontana DE's, as well as most of the AXes over the last year and a half. My concern though, is that looking at the lack of improvement in my times, I'm probably making the same mistakes over and over and am not applying the techniques I know I should. I don't believe it's the car since others with 911SC's are doing much better times. It would be interesting, though, to see what times a fast driver would do in my car. I have a Racepak G2X in the car and have been able to compare segment times with a couple of other faster drivers and I seem to be losing fractions of a second in every segment - and, of course, they all add up! It looks like a lot of little problems rather than any big one. I don't necessarily want to have the fastest times, I just want to be a little more competitive and show some consistent improvement - but I don't seem to be.

As Jad and Dave suggested maybe the strategy should be to con one of the top AX SDR drivers into spending a day with me at the next AX, maybe even driving my car for a few laps, possibly by bribing them with a fancy dinner and wine for he and his significant other . Any volunteers?

[Cajundaddy]

No con job needed Bill. Just sign up for Chuckwalla DE both days if qualified, request an instructor, and pay attention to everything they feel is important. Be a sponge. Trust your instructor and if they ask you to do something... do it. Do some homework first and take your car to Mirage, Dieter's or another shop that knows your car model inside and out. Make sure it is in good working order and is set up properly for performance driving at your level (1st year??). Make sure you have a good fresh set of tires and brakes on the car. Any instructor can give you valuable info that will improve your driving but someone with a lot of hours in a 911SC would probably be the most beneficial. Instead of 12 laps of AX you will get 60+ laps on a challenging course with a top driving instructor at your side. If you don't make a vast improvement, something is very wrong.

[lrayner]

There are several good books that cover the basics and some of the mental aspects of driving. "Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving" has a lot of info you will find useful to AXing. You have hit a plateau which most drivers do along the way. Mine seemed to last for a couple of years but you will break through.

[Gunter]

+1. SDR has some of the best and most helpful driver/instructors anywhere. Ask them for a ride, have them drive your car and compare the data. Sign up for as many events as you can because there is NO substitute for seat time. And don't beat yourself up over a few tenth of a second...faster times will come

[Jad]

As Jad and Dave suggested maybe the strategy should be to con one of the top AX SDR drivers into spending a day with me at the next AX, maybe even driving my car for a few laps, possibly by bribing them with a fancy dinner and wine for he and his significant other . Any volunteers?

With your attitude the speed will certainly come, never as fast as we want, but keep going to events and simply ask for rides with the fast guys and let them drive your car for 2-3 laps and carefully review the data and compare with what you do. They also can help point out any major flaws in the handling of your car, but generally work on the piece that connects the pedals, seat and steering wheel

Anytime you see me standing around, grab me. I doubt I will be able to make the AX, and I am teaching the DE at Chuckwalla so that may be busy - too early to tell, Paul Young may be able to help, or have Steve G drive the car for data. He gets carsick and can't instruct, but could provide very valuable data on your car and data acquisition. You may pay with harassment and mockery, but generally it is worth it! there are many others as well, just be sure to ask for an instructor to boost you to the next level and ask for rides. It is a lot of fun as well.

Good luck.

[Jackie C]

Will work for food

[mrondeau]

Bill,

If you're not the type to get car sick, you should try to ride with as many instructors as possible. I know that I've learned a lot from the right hand seat. Don't limit yourself to any one type of car either. You can learn a lot from riding in all types of cars. Some people are even able to learn how to be faster in a 911 by driving a 944. The most important thing is seat time. There are a lot of really good suggestions in this post so take them to heart.

Most importantly, get Jad into your car at some point! I can hear him saying "more gas" already.

Good luck!

[mrondeau]

Will work for food

So, you've raised your rates?

[Jackie C]

yes, and lowered my standards

[Steve Grosekemper]

Bill

We have talked before and I think Chuckwalla is your best bang for the buck. Get an instructor, follow another similar car on the track to check their line and have somebody familiar with the car drive it to see if the car is more of an issue than you think it is. Get ride alongs and switch instructors.

Bottom line is you just just can't beat seat time. I started time trialing in the late 80's and seriously in 2000 and I am still improving (for the most part)...
It's all about collecting data and that is really hard to do in 12 laps.

Chuckwalla is a great venue for this as it is a drivers/handling track not a HP track.

Hope to see you there!