2012 Rules question

[Cajundaddy]

Aftermarket shocks/struts are still not clear to me: "Non-stock shock absorbers with remote or external reservoirs, or with more than single-mode adjustability."

Does this really mean any aftermarket adjustable shock/strut or only multi-adjustable. Do PSS9s and PSS10s have more than single mode adjustability (dampening and ride height)?

[Mmagus]

I read that as Multi-adjustable. And I believe thats a direct port from the old rules, ie. The wording on this hasnt changed.. at least that I can see.

[AGill]

Pss9/10 take 2 points according to Steve G as some of us asked him a while ago. They are considered single mode adjustable. If it had two dials to adjust it you would have to take more than 2 points. I think a JIC cross would be an example of a non-remote reservoir that is more than single mode adjustable.

[Cajundaddy]

Thanks Adam,
This rule has always been as clear as mud to me. I suspect that the performance difference between PSS9s and JIC with reservoirs is approaching zero in an AX or Time Trial. In an endurance race where the struts are working hard for 2hrs the extra reservoir would probably prevent dampening fade dude to heat. So PSS9s are 20 points under 2012 rules?? JIC/JRZ with remote reservoirs??

[AGill]

Yes, Pss9/10 is 20 points under the new rules. I believe a remote reservior (or dual adjustable shocks that have more than one dial) would be an additional 20 points so a total of 40 for the shock/spring setup. Damper fade would be one consideration but the biggest advantage of a dual adjustable shock over the Pss9/10 is the ability to tune rebound independent of compression.

[Cajundaddy]

Yes, Pss9/10 is 20 points under the new rules. I believe a remote reservior (or dual adjustable shocks that have more than one dial) would be an additional 20 points so a total of 40 for the shock/spring setup. Damper fade would be one consideration but the biggest advantage of a dual adjustable shock over the Pss9/10 is the ability to tune rebound independent of compression.

Multiple modes of adjustability are interesting but I doubt if it results in faster laps at our level of play. If we were driving Grand Am for Brumos and they had real time telemetry data and a team of chassis engineers it might be different. I figure PSS9s helped shave 1 sec. off my time at FOS by simply allowing me to lower the front of my car and get a little more tire contact in hard cornering. Adjustments for dampening and rebound are maybe worth 1/10th??? I will throw away a lot more than that by missing my braking zone by a few feet. I don't see much point in charging penalty points for mods that don't result in a performance advantage. Most of the mods look like 20 points = roughly 1 second on average. Keep it simple to understand and scrut.

[Chaoscreature]

My JIC/Cross suspension is single adjustable... I think the new ones coming out may be double adjustable. I was interpreting "more than single mode adjustable" as being anything with a nob.
They are also non-remote reservoir. Essentially the same as the PSS10's but they came with the mono-ball upper mount in the front, camber plates and two springs instead of the progressive springs. With the limited budgets, time and DAQ equipment it would be a real trick trying to dial in 3 way adjustable shocks, sway bars etc for an AX only car but I would imagine that once everything was dialed in those adjustments coupled with the right tire would take a good chunk of time off the laps (as opposed to just the tires).

Camber plates don't make any sense to me as a points item either. If you have them but only run street camber settings it doesn't net you anything other than some pretty aluminum under the hood. Adam, you don't have camber plates do you? Yet I think you are at -2.00 deg camber in the front?
I have mine maxed out positive at -1.25 deg front camber. Maybe the rule should be Camber Degrees X 5 or 10 = # points.

For my JIC setup and under my interpretation of the rules I was docking myself:
20 points under rule R
0 Points under Rule S, because of rule R
20 Points under Rule P

Is this about right?

[Mmagus]

Camber plates don't make any sense to me as a points item either. If you have them but only run street camber settings it doesn't net you anything other than some pretty aluminum under the hood.

Camber plates in a 944/24 eliminate the massive rubber bushing at the top of the shock tower and the asociated flex. So even if you run within stock specs you get a more ridgid set up. I am guessing that is where the points come in.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Camber plates don't make any sense to me as a points item either. If you have them but only run street camber settings it doesn't net you anything other than some pretty aluminum under the hood. Adam, you don't have camber plates do you? Yet I think you are at -2.00 deg camber in the front?
I have mine maxed out positive at -1.25 deg front camber. Maybe the rule should be Camber Degrees X 5 or 10 = # points.

For my JIC setup and under my interpretation of the rules I was docking myself:
20 points under rule R
0 Points under Rule S, because of rule R
20 Points under Rule P

Is this about right?

Thats almost like saying I don't take points for my 3.6L engine swap in my 914 because only press 1/2 way down on the pedal...
If you got it, you take points for it.
Slicks are the same points even if you run 60 psi in them.

I can't drive as well as Jad can... do I get a points credit?

[Chaoscreature]

I am going to take the 20 point hit either way for the mono-ball uppers so I am not contesting the issue for my own car. To make myelf feel better I can re-interpret the results as I take 0 points under rule R and 20 for rule S, but either way I am taking a hit.
Steve, good analogy. I am sure somewhere around 80mph or so you could finally put your foot down!

I'm looking forward to the new car classes, it should be fun to have a wider variety of cars in each class, and fewer classes overall.

[gocart]

Where is the chart for modification points? Or modification point table? Or "adjustment points" table or what ever it's called now?

[Mmagus]

Hmmmmm

Where is the chart for modification points? Or modification point table? Or "adjustment points" table or what ever it's called now?

If you are looking for them on the link I provided above you wont find them as that is just the base points allocation. Its listed seperatly as many of them were updated. For the current year, and the upcomming modification charts etc can be found in the rules. Links are on this page.

http://pcasdr.net/events/event-rules/