Not all AX's are created equal

[DonCostello]

I learned the hard way that not all AX's are like San Diego's excellent monthly events. I did my first AX about a year ago, and have done 15 since (all in SD or Orange county). Orange county is a bit different, but they basically do as good a job as San Diego does. This weekend I though it would be fun to travel to an AX, so I went to the Santa Barbara event at Camarillo Saturday. Whoops! The track was what I picture as an old fashioned "gymkhana". The short track was all tiny little turns with no significant straights. The fastest part of the track was probably 35 mph. Some turns were 5 mph (really). A car could not have spun (or even caused tire noise) unless the track had been soaked in motor oil.
I spoke with several of the local drivers and they had no idea what a long fast AX track like Qualcomm or El Toro was like. I sure hope they had fun, but the track combined with the relentless strong wind caused me to leave after a few practice laps and find something better to do for the day.
Of course, I do appreciate and give credit to the volunteers who worked hard to put the event together. But I now have an even greater appreciation for the excellent San Diego events. Thank you San Diego AX team for your great work!

Don Costello

[ttweed]

I spoke with several of the local drivers and they had no idea what a long fast AX track like Qualcomm or El Toro was like.

Some of the SBR members have come down to the Q over the years to run in our events (especially when we host a Zone 8 AX), so they do know what it's like. The problem is really with their site at Camarillo, which doesn't offer the kind of spacious layout we are so fortunate to have at Qualcomm. When I was running the Zone 8 series, I always skipped that venue myself, because of its limitations. If it's the only place you have, though, you have to go with what you've got. They sometimes use the Earl Warren Fairgrounds up there as well, but clubs are constantly losing AX sites all over the place, often for insurance or logistical reasons. The EVOC training center in Devore is a perfect example. That was a great little track that GPX and Riverside regions used but is no longer available to them. GER had a great site at the Minter Field Airport in Shafter, which even used to host SCCA roadracing events back in the day (James Dean raced his Porsche there, as did Steve McQueen), but it is gone now. We may end up in the same situation after they close Qualcomm. It's just a matter of when, not if...

TT

[pecivil]

thanks Tom for that I didn't know that history. Having gotten into this relatively lately this really bums me out. I have also attended other events and SD-PCA runs the best and most fun events of all.
Where will we go when we lose the Q? Will SD and OC have to team up for events only at El Toro? That would SUCK. Not that El Toro isn't a good venue, but the camber at the Q adds so much to the driving and its way closer than south OC. Plus there would be too many cars if events combined. And X class would be axed for sure.

Are there other venues in SD county where we could go?

[ttweed]

Where will we go when we lose the Q? Will SD and OC have to team up for events only at El Toro? That would SUCK.

Unfortunately, El Toro is a temporary venue as well. It is also slated for redevelopment after the Marine Corps gave it up. The only saving grace of this economic depression we are in is that it has slowed investment in new housing because of the collapse of real estate values and the glut of foreclosure properties on the market. Lennar Corp. of Miami bought most of the land there from the feds in 2005, and homes were to start going up in 2007, but we all know what happened then. There was a 1300+ acre park included in the development plan, but a motorsport facility would NOT be part of that park, I am sure, with 3400 homes nearby. The runways were supposed to be demolished in 2006 as development began, but that has been delayed, allowing racing to continue there for awhile. Here is the current plan for the park: http://www.ocgp.org/news/construction/

Are there other venues in SD county where we could go?

There have been many clubs (including ours) searching for local alternatives since the issue of Qualcomm redevelopment surfaced several years ago. We have been given a reprieve of sorts, but it is inevitable that the Q will go the way of Lane Field and Westgate Park eventually.
Nothing has been identified yet as a solid possibility, and most ideas involved the military facilities nearby, where access has become more difficult due to enhanced post-9/11 security. The best possibility was a motorsports park rumored to be planned for Miramar east of the dump and north of I-52, but that didn't pan out.

TT

[Gary Burch]

We do some work in south Bay, the marina and around the new car lots. there are acres of asphalt down there. I sent the Port District an email and was not surprised when they said nothing was available.
If anyone works for the Port or has contacts there, use them. This would be a much better solution than the military.

[Chaoscreature]

This may sound incredibly naive but has anyone thought about investing in a private track in San Diego (or maybe just outside the county)?
The land costs would be more than most places here, but I would be interested in investing (assuming I could get the business loan) if anyone else is.

Here are some examples of tracks in other states:
http://www.drivewayaustin.com
http://harrishillroad.com
http://www.drivebluegrass.com/news/articles.html

Even if it was on a smaller scale the idea of having a private track coupled with minor amenities (club-like atmosphere) sounds really appealing to me.

Obviously I haven't done much research yet but I think somehting like this could be profitable.

[lagrasta]

I have been tossing around a very similar idea for about a year now. But instead of a track, I'm thinking we should make an actual "AutoCross Park".

A nice big paved area (and not too level so we can still have on/off camber sections). We start out with only the basics and some locked storage to keep the trailer. We use it ourselves and rent it out to the other clubs when we aren't using it.

As it matures we add facilities and services like food and garages for rent. Heck, I could even see someone like RSR setting up a satellite shop there. It could be huge!!!!

I think it's just a matter of how far north/east we have to go to find some suitable land with the right zoning and noise restrictions.

[pecivil]

I'm thinking we should make an actual "AutoCross Park".

that is exactly what I was thinking as well. A private motorsports facility, but designed around autoX vs a real road course. The land requirements would be smaller and maybe the zoning and code issues would be easier. And it could be something that all the area clubs could use to spread out the costs. And the best part is there would be no light posts to hit, and no 3rd party to deal with like at the Q and a pavement actually designed for higher speed use vs a parking lot. You could also throw in a drag strip, to make it attractive to the city/county and pitch it as a way to get street racers off the street and drag legally. You could introduce driving schools for teens like Teen Survival and non autoX events as well. Heck it may even make money in the end. Even if it broke even that would be great.

SD county has so much open land there would be lots of potential locations away from "stuff" but still not too far off the beaten path. But doing this would require some big bucks and take a while to get going.

But hey rome wasn't built in a day.

I hereby volunteer any and all required structural engineering for the project FREE.

[ttweed]

I have to applaud my local club with doing the best they can with what we have out here, but it did not make me want to get out of bed anytime soon for an AX!
The Q is a tough act to follow!

Marie,
Don't give up hope yet. SAR used to run at Pinal Air Park, which was a really fun venue. Do they not do that anymore? It's a little driver training road course on the air base there. Maybe security concerns have ruled it out now? Here is a story I wrote for the WW a few years back about one of my trips out there for a Zone 8 AX that I have archived on one of my websites:
http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/Pinal.pdf

Have fun at the DE!
TT

[Chaoscreature]

I have thought about this quite a bit. I think a wide open lot would end up costing more than a "track" with multiple configurations. Since the paving would more or less cost $$$/ft^2 it would make sense to maximize the "fun/ft^2".

I would suspect something decent could be found for about $2-3k/acre within Valley Center or Ramona.
I would suspect paving would be somewhere along the lines of $4/ft^2. That's about what I was quoted for a 4" thick concrete slab anyways...
For a 1.5 mile (5280 feet) track 30 feet wide that would be 158,400 ft^2. At $5/ft^2 that puts it at $792,000 for paving. Drop a cargo container and a trailer on site and it would be good to go until some revenue started coming in and more infrastructure could be added.
Has anyone ever run the "horse theif mile" at Willow? I suspect it would end up something like that, more of an autocross feel, no mile long straights.

Lets say this cost $3,000,000 to complete and we got $200k in private funding. At a loan rate of 8% and a term of 10 years to competely pay off the track we would need at least 150 $250/month memberships to barely pay off the loan (let alone operating costs). I don't think it would be hard to get that. That happens to be the exact same amount a membership at Miramar Speed would cost.

I know this is a dream, but it really would be amazing to be a part of something like this.

[RETII]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 2 to 3k per acre is a pipe dream pretty much anywhere this side of the desert. My feeling is the best chance for a new facility would be on a local Indian reservation where ALOT of the environmental and NIMBY issues could be avoided. Barona already has a drag strip of sorts just as an example.

[Chaoscreature]

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 1221-92908
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 1731-17183
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 1057-26437
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 1887-11393

The really cheap properties are all out in Borrego or further but these looked promising. I did some VERY rough calculations using our Qualcomm map and the entire West lot looks like it's about 34 acres. The longest straight section being roughly 1,900 feet from the tracks to the back wall.

RETII, does that mean the land would need to be purchased from the Indians or is it leased?
I know very little about real estate....

[Sawfish]

Lets keep this rolling. I like where this may lead
I am willing to invest a paultry amount but that times 100 may be significant.
San Diego County needs a motorsports facility.
Chris

[Ted Myrus]

Dreams become reality when dreamers persist.
Some thoughts:
Indian property has its advantages and not all tribes are rich with Casino money.
Desert property has distinct disadvantages.

Don't limit use to AX. San Diego area doesn't have a decent drag strip, that could be a year around cash cow. A 24' x 100' concrete burn out/start area leading to a 1320' asphalt straight(cheaper), then going uphill slope for 660' shut down area 2 lanes wide. (or whatever specs a drag racing sanctioning body dictates) Then a hairpin turn into a single wide return road that is a chicane, perhaps with cross links back to the strip, therefore allowing multiple track configuartions for AX or cart racing or motorcycles.

What's needed... money, favorable zoning, perimeter security fencing, insurance, and...

Whats not needed intially....utilities. We can use portable restrooms, generator, etc. Office trailer is not a good idea. Storage containers are cheaper, and more secure, and stackable. One for storage, one converted for registration, one stacked on top for race control, timing/scoring,etc. AND SPELL CHECK ON THIS SITE

[Ted Myrus]

Marie,

Don't give up on the AZ Region. They have lame AX's, but they're really great people.

Want to have some track fun? Check out PRO Autosports/ ASA Racing at Firebird. They have a novice school with ciriculum similar to out Performance Driving School.

Be safe and stay out of the heat.

Still no spell check