Willow Springs and brakes

[Dave Diamond]

I am unexpectedly free on Willow Springs weekend and was thinking of trying it out, at least for one day. Not having been there before, it looks like a very fast track. How fast is it? (4th gear on long straights?) Looks like it will be hard on brakes, too? Advice from vets?
Thanks

[Tawfik]

WSIR (Big Track) is not hard on brakes or tires. It is a momentum track.

[Robert]

I would disagree with respect to tires. The track is very fast and tough on left side tires.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Robert is correct.
Stock cars will use up the left front the most.
Racecars with WSIR specific set up will do much better.
It is really not an issue, just swap left to right every other session and you will have even wear.
(some people just swap at lunch)

I usually don't even have measurable pad wear after a two driver weekend at Willow.

It is a great track and the benchmark track for so. cal.

[Tawfik]

Robert/Steve:
I would agree with you due to T2 and T8 being high speed sweeper but keep in mind that WSIR has been resurfaced. The new surface is much smoother and gentler on tires. The bumps in T8 are still there but not as bad as they used to be.
Also if you haven t run the track since it was resurfaced a couple months ago, you might need to readjust your braking points into t1.

[Greg Phillips]

Robert/Steve:
I would agree with you due to T2 and T8 being high speed sweeper but keep in mind that WSIR has been resurfaced. The new surface is much smoother and gentler on tires. The bumps in T8 are still there but not as bad as they used to be.
Also if you haven t run the track since it was resurfaced a couple months ago, you might need to readjust your braking points into t1.

Earlier or later

Greg

[Steve Grosekemper]

Robert/Steve:
I would agree with you due to T2 and T8 being high speed sweeper but keep in mind that WSIR has been resurfaced. The new surface is much smoother and gentler on tires. The bumps in T8 are still there but not as bad as they used to be.
Also if you haven t run the track since it was resurfaced a couple months ago, you might need to readjust your braking points into t1.

That's right, I totally forgot about the resurfacing.
OK- Tawfik, how about some details for us?

[Tawfik]

Details:
Brake later and if you end up in the dirt, brake earlier next lap

No in all seriousness, I ran the track a couple weeks after it was resurfaced. It was still very Hot at the track and the surface was still very oily and not enough rubber on it. The new surface is great with regards to bumps etc.... however times increased 2 to 3 seconds due to the track being very slippery.
This was a couple months ago, I haven t been back since then and hopefully more rubber has now been laid.

Take it easy the first session to get familiar with the new surface, you ll be surprised at T8, T1 and the apex of T9

[pdy]

Tawfik - Sounds like the resurfacing AFTER the Triple Crown in May - right?

[Tawfik]

Paul: Yes. They resurfaced early summer.
Just in time for Coulthard and Tom Cruise to drive the Redbull F1 car on the track.

[Jad]

I am unexpectedly free on Willow Springs weekend and was thinking of trying it out, at least for one day. Not having been there before, it looks like a very fast track. How fast is it? (4th gear on long straights?) Looks like it will be hard on brakes, too? Advice from vets?
Thanks

It is a great track and you should try it, but respect it. It is the fastest track we go to for average speed with top speeds only slightly lower than Fontana, so expect near 130mph in your Boxster, well into 5th. The corners are pretty fast, so it is easy on brakes, just hard on driver. Easy to drive at 80%, nearly impossible at 100%. Finding the last few 10ths can be a lifelong mission

Hope to see you there!

[LUCKY DAVE]

I am unexpectedly free on Willow Springs weekend and was thinking of trying it out, at least for one day. Not having been there before, it looks like a very fast track. How fast is it? (4th gear on long straights?) Looks like it will be hard on brakes, too? Advice from vets?
Thanks

It is a great track and you should try it, but respect it. It is the fastest track we go to for average speed with top speeds only slightly lower than Fontana, so expect near 130mph in your Boxster, well into 5th. The corners are pretty fast, so it is easy on brakes, just hard on driver. Easy to drive at 80%, nearly impossible at 100%. Finding the last few 10ths can be a lifelong mission

Hope to see you there!

Jad hit that nail square on the head.
Go to Willow, you'll love it. Guaranteed. Just don't expect to be fast your first time there.
I've ridden on many, many tracks, but Willow is still my favorite. It looks deceptively simple (only nine corners, right?) but that's an illusion. In truth it's fantastically complex and difficult to master. The camber changes and ever changing radii are almost impossible to see because of the way they are strung together. Turn one is a good example, the fact that it's uphill fools your eye into underestimating how banked it is and ignoring the uphill. No matter how fast you think you're getting in, your exit always reveals it was too slow
Then there's the turn eight/nine pucker factor to separate the men from the boys.........
I have thousands of laps around Willow,(I used to teach racing schools there) but I have yet to turn that "perfect lap".
"How fast is Willow?" That depends on the driver of course, but with a skilled and determined driver it's as fast as your can can go.....and then some. On a typical windy day, the fastest place on the track is the exit of turn eight (if the throttle hasn't been rolled off since the exit of five), as the wind typically blows straight into your face down the main straight limiting top speed there. Willow can make even the biggest, meanest, scary fast race monster feel underpowered.

[Dave Diamond]

I wouldn't have guessed that the exit of turn 8 is so fast. 8 must be a very fast, big radius turn.

Another question: Anybody think I should try to put my 255-40x17 street tires on the front for this, since I have 2 sets of wheels? They are a harder compound than the same size Dunlop Direzzas (200 compound, same size) I'll have on the back. I usually run the 225 Direzzas on the front, but I've been hearing people recommending a "square" setup. I don't know if the harder-but-wider tires would help on the front...?

[Cajundaddy]

I wouldn't have guessed that the exit of turn 8 is so fast. 8 must be a very fast, big radius turn.

Another question: Anybody think I should try to put my 255-40x17 street tires on the front for this, since I have 2 sets of wheels? They are a harder compound than the same size Dunlop Direzzas (200 compound, same size) I'll have on the back. I usually run the 225 Direzzas on the front, but I've been hearing people recommending a "square" setup. I don't know if the harder-but-wider tires would help on the front...?

I have run WSIR both staggered and 255 square on NT01s. I would say the lap times were very close. Running square on different compound tires might just be annoying.

I don't know what these guys are talking about "braking into turn 1". I just roll off the throttle, select a lower gear, and roll on the throttle.
Caveat: My car only has 2.5 squirrels behind the seat to power it though.

Suggestion: Get in the right seat with several experienced drivers and learn their lines. Ramp up your speed very gradually here. This track will bite you if you go too fast, too soon. WSIR requires patience, confidence, and very large attachments.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Suggestion: Get in the right seat with several experienced drivers and learn their lines. Ramp up your speed very gradually here. This track will bite you if you go too fast, too soon.

Good advice at any track. Really good advice at Willow.