Porsche can be annoying

[Jad]

This seems unbelievable to me, but my 2003 Targa had a dead battery for no reason last week. I made an appointment with Pioneer to get it fixed (yes, I could go to Kragen and buy a new battery and install it myself, but I have a bumper to bumper warranty and shouldn't have to ).

I showed up at Pioneer this morning and was told it would be $200 to fix??? batteries are not covered URRRRR wish they would have told me that on the phone, I wouldn't have waisted the time off work to drive to Pioneer plus 5 days with the car sitting with a dead battery.

So now I go to Kragen (actually Pepboys) and buy the battery myself for $90 and install it. Just for fun? I look in my warranty book. Batteries are covered unless they are damaged from 'storage, lack of normal use or non-Porsche accessories'. I call Pioneer and NOW they explain that Porsche does not cover the battery unless the car is driven a minimum of 620 miles a month (7500 a year). My 2003 with 19,500 miles is considered abused according to the factory as it is not driven enough since it was registered in Sept 2002.

I then got a speech about all the electronics, etc, etc and that I really should be plugging the car in every night so the battery doesn't get drained. The fact the car is driven to Carlsbad 3-4 times a week plus other driving is not sufficient. I guess I should by an electric car, at least it gets better gas mileage between charges.....Who is Porsche trying to kid with the BS.

I would expect this on a $10K Hyundia, on a $90k Porsche this runaround is very disappointing. No wonder they have dropped to the very bottom of the JD Powers ratings. 2-3 years ago they were at the very top with Lexus. I bet Lexus, with LOTS more computers and electronics would have happily fixed it so my car started under warranty in the very unlikely event that the problem existed to begin with. I could be wrong though, BMW wasn't much better with their warrantly

Am I the only one that feels this is pretty poor on Porsches part, or am I just whinning over $90 and 10 minutes of installation on a car that I have been very happy with?

[Michael Dolphin]

Jad, was it a general "they" that you spoke to at Pioneer -- or a manager? Particularly, I have found that just a little bit of time to speak with a manager AND to make the point that you are a club member goes a long way toward at least getting a full explanation, if not a resolution. Lastly, was the battery really dead -- or just in need of charge?

[Chris Benbow]

Sounds frustrating. Your experience does sound a little out of character for Pioneer as I can think of one or two cases where they replaced whole engines in cars after the warranty was already expired.

[kary]

Jad, I feel for you on this one. If they are not covering the battery due to mileage they should suggest that you purchase a trickle charger to avoid such issues in the future. Your car is very new and really should not have an issue like that even with the few miles you drive. I only have 32,000 on my 97 and am on my second battery during the entire time. The first abttery failed at 5 years of owner ship with few miles driven. I rarely drive mine on the street anymore so I use a charger at home to keep the battery fresh. Porsche should know that the majority of their cars are really not driven that much in terms of miles, but then that is why they are not covering the battery anymore because many owners have probably cashed in on the replacement and they are tired of paying for it. Either way it is a bummer and you are right you should expect more for a $90,000 car.

[Jad]

And the $90 replacement battery is 100% covered for 3 years with no mileage limits, trickle chargers needed or any of the other issues.

Michael, not 100% sure it was just a dead battery, I THOUGHT that is what Pioneer was going to check before I learned I would be $200 min to find out it is PROBABLY a dead battery A couple weeks of driving will tell.

I only spoke with a service rep at Pioneer and while friendly, shall we say I was not impressed with how he handled any of this. As a caveat, I have had good service in the past from Pioneer, better than Hoehn, but this was a very unpleasant experience. Companies pay so much for marketing and advertising to help thier image, yet a simple $100 battery for a long time customer can ruin all their best efforts.

[Carl Scragg]

Jad,

You definitely have my sympathy. There aren't too many things I find as frustrating as taking time off work to get some service done and then finding that I've wasted my time. But you did make one comment that I have to take exception to:

"No wonder they have dropped to the very bottom of the JD Powers ratings. 2-3 years ago they were at the very top with Lexus."


Actually, in the most recent JD Powers "Vehicle Dependablity Study", Porsche showed the largest improvement of any marque, finishing number 2 in the study, right behind Lexus. Porsche also got top honors in the high-end sports car category with the 911. For more info check out this July, 2005 press release from JD Powers

www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrele ... ID=2005089

Good luck with the new battery. Being after-market, it'll probably last for years.

Carl

[Tim Souza]

Jad - I too have had many frustrating encounters (Hoehn). First, just after purchasing my 2001 996 with 13K miles and full (paid for) bumper to bumper warranty, I found a leak in my windshield while washing the car. They told me that the window was improperly installed so it would be $700.00 to fix Needless to say I was hot and told them "they" had certified the car, therefor they assumed liability if anything was incorrect! After "yelling" loud enough, they agreed to repair at no cost.

Then we purchase a 2001 Boxster "S" (with paid for warranty) and the ignition goes out in a couple of months! Again, they tell us that specific part is not covered, so it would be $1000.00 to repair. Again, I start asking for names and numbers of whom I can complain too, and miraculously, they call back and say they have found a way to repair it at no charge to me.

I have at least two other scenarios with the same situation...I bring the car in...they say it is not covered...I make some noise...they fix it!!

The point here is, we all have paid a large price for the porsche, yet I get superior service at my local Ford dealer. I feel they basically say...if we can get the custoemr to pay for it (and possibly collect form PNA), then great...if not...well it was worth a shot!

I will however note: After the 3rd RMS oil leak, I went in and said hey...this is not supposed to be happening, and they replaced the engine without me having to say a thing I do still wonder if when they saw me coming, they just said, well this guy knows the deal, just fix it and get him out of here

[rss996]

Well guys, i had a similar experience with the 997....Drove the car to my office after taking delivery and noticed a bubble in the side wall...call salesman and told him right away.....told me no problem....service guy said i had to drive it in and they had to inspect it in order to get replacement...told them that was crazy, i just picked it up and to get me a tire asap....after a week they called and had the tire...went to get it swapped out and they said i had to pay for it and after tire rack inspected it they would credit me back the 367 on my cc.....after 3 months and a zillion calls they finally gave e the credit.....

Whats up with these dealers....I personally think Porsche is greedy and just plain obnoxious with their arrogance in pricing and warranty claims....Fools like me pay 70-100k for a new car and then get nickel and dimed for everythin down to the floor mats...

Anyone remember how Sean Dynes got treated and screwed with his smokomg car? (996)

I will never get over the rep from PCNA pulling out the windblown witness and saying that he abused his car after showing the arbitrator he took 1st place in class and to get there he had to be pushing the car over the limits......

Great attitude from a so called "Race Heritage"

I love my 997 but am starting to tire on the whole Porsche experience....stories like these dont help!

For Gods sakes, treat a customer like a king if he drops 100k at your dealer or even a measly 80k like me!

[SteveS]

Jad,

I feel your pain. Back when I had too many cars and not enough mileage, that was a frequent problem. I will say that Pioneer treated me a little kinder and gentler. On the first occurrence, they replaced my battery under warranty and warned me about the mileage issue. (And they also sold me an "approved" Porsche trickle-charger.)

However, just wait until you encounter the REAL (!) brillance of 996 German engineering when your battery dies with the door lock/security system engaged and no way to open the (locked) hood to charge/replace the battery. It's enough to cause you to instantly learn and shout selected German words of admiration (not!).

[Jad]

I should also point out the brillance of drive by wire as a warning. I finally get the car compression started, it is idling fine, but at such a low rpm that the alternator can't produce a charge. No guages, etc and all of the sensor warning lights are flashing failures and of course, the brillant drive by wire throttle doesn't work so I can't rev the engine to solve the problem. Eventually (1-2 minutes) the charge is enough the throttle works and I rev the engine and it solves all the problems immediately.

Do you really want the new BMW and MB features of brake and steer by wire??? These are currently only assists, but soon they could be full control by wires and compression starting the car or bizzarre electrical failures could get really scary if you don't plan ahead I never thought about the gas pedal not working for awhile....

Carl,

You are right, Porsche does fine in some studies, but the most recent Pano shows the miserable failure in the most recent JD Powers new vehicle problems arena. I guess the 987's & 997's have a lot of early 'bugs'. My 996 has been trouble free until this incident. Though my Boxster S had 2-3 rear CV boots go bad and an engine replaced under warranty. Of course, my 964 basically needed a new engine at 50k as well, so maybe this is nothing new, it just isn't acceptable by today's standards. The 944's seem to be the only well built Porsches I have had, all without major incidents and all with 100-200k miles. (OK one I bought died immediately, but I am not counting that poor car ) Those Germans raise healthy squirrels!

Come on Porsche, you have the margins to do this right and keep VERY loyal customers happy. Too much good competition these days

Thanks for the support......

[martinreinhardt]

I feel the pain, I have been there. It appears to be a problem with PCNA dealers. I never was treated like a number at a Porsche dealer in europe.

rss996:
Funny, I had a similar tire story when I purchased my Boxster back in 1999 at Hoehn. As I arrive home I noticed a screw in the sidewall of my left rear tire Next day I returned to the dealer and I showed the problem. They gave me a loaner and a $360 bill It was theire word against mine.

BTW My Boxster is still on it's first battery since 1999. I start to think the older Porsche's get and the more they are driven; the better they run.

I agree with Jad the 944's are solid cars. My 944 Turbo Cup (here called 'Turbo S' I believe) was the most reliable car I ever had. (why did I ever sell that car )

[rss996]

WHy cant the Japanese make a fast sports car in the leauge of performance like Porsche..?

My 997 has been great so far (knock on wood) but i have heard of a bunch that have had a few gremlins in them so far!

[Chris Huck]

Sorry to hear about the poor service Jad. There's never an excuse, but please know I'm always here to help any SDR members as much as I can.

I just touched base with my Parts Dept and was quoted $200 for a Porsche battery, $100 for an Interstate brand battery. And remember PCA members get 10% off from us.

My experience over the past 9 years with many low mileage driving customers cars is about a 36 month battery life expectancy. My personal rule of thumb is to replace them at the 36 month service to minimize future frustrations.

FWIW - My Honda Civic Hybrid battery was also $96 last week.

Chris Huck
www.pioneerporsche.com

[kary]

And the $90 replacement battery is 100% covered for 3 years with no mileage limits, trickle chargers needed or any of the other issues.

.

Jad, What type of battery did you get that allows for full replacement before three years? Batteries are always pro-rated when returned, and when returned, the replacement battery is given the same in-service date as the original battery. I just did this with a Napa battery in which they tried to tell me that I needed the receipt to prove I was the orignal owner. After some pointed discussion, they replaced the battery, though pro-rated.

[Bob Gagnon]

Mercedes not much better.

I had my wife's 2001 MB in for it's "Service A" which is one of those $250 services where they change the oil and check off that they have done mickey mouse services such as checking the door hinges for rust, etc.

Anyway, a few days after the service, the battery goes dead with the car parked with the trans in "park" (which requres electical power to disengage) in a position with the hood under a cabinet so it can't open fully. I just managed to sneak in the jumper cables through a barely opened hood after some effort.

Checking the battery I noted the electrolyte was below the plates and it took about 3/4 of a quart of water to fill it. Citing the technician's checked off box for this service on their "Service A" form, I complained to Mercedes asking how the battery could have been this low if the electrolyte were actually checked a few days before.

They gave me a new battery.

The moral is check the battery electrolyte yourself and never pay for the comprehensive service packages since the technicians probably don't do 1/4 of the list anyway.