Alternative Autos for Performance Events

[PShipman]

After the long and enlightening discussion on Weight Loss and the reasons why Porsche Cabs (of any type) are really not good starting points for perfomance events ...

And since a number of you have thrown out the names of what might be your choice(s) ...

such as:

:arrow: mid 80's SC -- Thank you Dan
Spec Car -- lots of you but Chuck was first
944 Coupe -- thrown out as Cab alternative

I want to ask for a serious discussion (as opposed to the fun, rib each other type) about what each of you might choose (AND REASONS pro and con) for a good starting point for a couple of drivers who will just want to have fun and learn and compete further after our first three or four years of building a house and learning from the 944 Cab.

NOTE: A couple of caviets

:arrow: much as I covet your GT3, Curtis and Nancy, it just isn't going to happen in this lifetime for us i.e. most of our extra income is "going to the dogs" and will continue to
As much as I dream, I don't see us as competing in the top ten ... to paraphrase Martin ... "it just ain't going to happen" ... we are not looking at how we can be the fastest
I like to do my own work ...
and I grew up around air cooled engines (second engine I ever rebuilt by myself was a 356A motor)
I built a number of street modified drag race engines as a kid ... I really like a kick in the pants from the throttle

So please share your pros and cons ... I really do like all the ideas and discussion that each of you provides.

[Greg Phillips]

Somebody had to bring it up and it might as well be me

928's are inexpensive and with just the replacement of springs and shocks will handle quite well.

My preference is for the later models with ABS, 1986 and on, but the handling will be similar for most of the models.
I have had several different class wins in J & K with my 928s and I don't think it is only my driving ability (but could be)!

Pros- inexpensive, solid, good horsepower and torque, minimal changes needed to suspension, plenty of room for drivers and track equipment, still OK to drive on long trips

Cons- heavy (more weight to get rid of:^), hard to find the 5 speeds (although the automatics are fine for big track), works best with limited slip

Greg

[ttweed]

Don't listen to Greg. It sounds to me like you are a perfect candidate for a 914 beater.

As long as you aren't too far over 6' tall....

TT

[harnishclan]

My 944 was 11th in BRI and 18 overall and cost me $1200 (and if I had not nicked a cone 5th with 1:22.61). There was a two and half year tear down-rebuild in which I did everything including the welding. And lots of selling on Ebay of old parts (and buying some new). Cars are cheap, parts are reasonable. There is a pretty fair amount of interchangeable parts among the model years. And about the only "challenging" procedure is timing belts.

Oh all of the above, plus the fact that I have a spare motor (that runs) that I bought for $250.00 while waiting for the original motor to get hurt (it has 260,000 miles). Try to buy a 911 motor that runs for $250.

Plus it's fun!

[Steve Grosekemper]

Somebody had to bring it up and it might as well be me

928's are inexpensive and with just the replacement of springs and shocks will handle quite well.

Well... I am not sure what to say about that... other than I think Greg has a flock of 928's that he might allow you to choose from.

I prefer the 911SC as a personal choice as they are the most dependable 6-cylinder ever built, make all the right sounds and have a great feel. An SC could be purchased brought up to standards and set-up for track use for $20K. It could be driven for several seasons with only spending money on consumables. There are many things that can be done on the SC by the slightly above average DIYer. Performance parts are super plentiful and can frequently be found from others moving up to something more "state of the art". However... and this is a big one; if you need to do major engine or transmission work it is going to be pricey.

But for about half that price you can do the same to a 944. Same reasons to get the 944 as the SC except for the sound of course. 944 is also much easier to work on. Tons of parts new and used and abundant resources on repair and modification. Both are great fun and great for honing driving skills, just a different price for admission.

[Dan Chambers]

Somebody had to bring it up and it might as well be me

928's are inexpensive and with just the replacement of springs and shocks will handle quite well.

Well... I am not sure what to say about that... other than I think Greg has a flock of 928's that he might allow you to choose from.

I prefer the 911SC as a personal choice as they are the most dependable 6-cylinder ever built, make all the right sounds and have a great feel. An SC could be purchased brought up to standards and set-up for track use for $20K. It could be driven for several seasons with only spending money on consumables. There are many things that can be done on the SC by the slightly above average DIYer. Performance parts are super plentiful and can frequently be found from others moving up to something more "state of the art". However... and this is a big one; if you need to do major engine or transmission work it is going to be pricey.

But for about half that price you can do the same to a 944. Same reasons to get the 944 as the SC except for the sound of course. 944 is also much easier to work on. Tons of parts new and used and abundant resources on repair and modification. Both are great fun and great for honing driving skills, just a different price for admission.

+1. AND: if you hunt around, and are patient, and keep your networking skills up, you might be able to keep the cost of the 911SC purchase and minor upgrades below $20K ... albeit it will be a challenge. So far; I'm in to the BlackPearl for around 15K to 16K and don't plan to do a whole lot more for a while until I learn more about the car.

After 6+ years and a steep learning curve in the 944, I moved to a different type of car. The 944 (coupe) was a fantastic, durable, fun car to drive and I would recommend anyone starting-out in Performance Driving to start with a 944-Coupe. I was in deep with mods so I was probably a little above the norm in expenses. Still, I managed to keep overall expenses below $20K in that car, too.

928's are great cars, but the expense of repairs make you go (Sorry, Greg) . The 914's are a great driver, but with age and rust issues ... and parts getting harder and harder to find ... they have less appeal than a 944.

Just my experience and opinions. Others may differ.

[Kim Crosser]

And - lest we forget - Tim Comeau in a 944 broke into the Top 10 Time-of-day group in the WEST lot.

(What's the Porsche motto? "It isn't the cars, it's the people")

Inexpensive, easy to maintain, lots of spare parts, and a very active driving group - a 944SPEC would be my choice (unless I had unlimited funds, in which case it would be a 997 GT3 for fun and street!).

[PShipman]

Thanks to you all on your thoughts ... Now let them perk for awhile

[PShipman]

Don't listen to Greg. It sounds to me like you are a perfect candidate for a 914 beater.

Actually ... this makes a lot of sense to me ... relatively easy to tinker on, recalls "childhood memories", relatively inexpensive ...

AND ... with George, Herb, and the rest of the 914 pack ... I'd never have to worry about loosing my humility!

[ttweed]

... with George, Herb, and the rest of the 914 pack ... I'd never have to worry about loosing my humility!

And don't forget Jess Osterberg, who has dominated the BRI this year with a C-Stock 914.

TT

[Kim Crosser]

And don't forget Jess Osterberg, who has dominated the BRI this year with a C-Stock 914.
TT

Arrgghh - you had to go and spoil my evening reminding me that I just can't catch Jess!

However, note that at the last AX, Paul Young, despite an almost 2% BRI penalty, whupped everyone in the BRI - by more than 1.25 seconds over 2nd (which was of course Jess)! That was a heck of a drive.

[ttweed]

However, note that at the last AX, Paul Young, despite an almost 2% BRI penalty, whupped everyone in the BRI - by more than 1.25 seconds over 2nd (which was of course Jess)! That was a heck of a drive.

Wow! I didn't see that one. Why was Paul so fast that day? SE lot course suited the SC? No Paul Jr. putting the pressure on him? New tires? Hair on fire?

Inquiring minds want to know...

TT

[993Panzer]

I think Paul is relaxed now that the Parade is over. He was releasing all of that tension into his driving. This is probably not true but it seemed like a good idea when I started this response.

[PShipman]

So ... what is the perfect car ... seems that top times are taken by a number of different models and years ... is it really 50% car and 50% driver???

[Steve Grosekemper]

There is no such thing as the perfect car...
There is the perfect car for the class... (Oh boy, is that another thread)
If there was such a thing as a perfect car, it would be the one you could drive the fastest.

A wicked 1800lb. 2.7RS 914-6 with 12 in slicks may be perfect for the right driver in AX ( I like it) but go to willow springs and that car will be lucky to get into the top 10 behind 993RSR bodied 3.6L monsters and 951's on steroids.

I for one am a much better driver when the engine is behind me...

As for 50/50, that rarely happens as drivers are never as consistent as a mechanical device.

You need to drive up to a time trial and see what that's all about, maybe get a "taste of the track" ride...

But don't blame me if you come home ready to buy a full track car...