2008 Time Trial Schedule?

[ethand]

Anyone have updates to what might be the 2008 TT schedule?

E

[seguina]

Hi Gang!

Since we are on the topic of TT's (..and maybe this has already been discussed)

How about making each day of a TT weekend count toward points. It would be fun at the end of the day to run for the "Money":)

I think this would make the weekend more fun!

Also, my article for the February OCR Pandemonium magazine will include information on the PCA TT program. I'll See we can get a few more OCR drivers entered.

Any thoughts?..on the two day proposal not OCR drivers:)

Have Fun! Steve

[martinreinhardt]

Steve,

I think that is a great idea and would make it more interesting. My dad races with Interseries and EuroBoss who's Sprint Races have a similar format. Friday is Qualifying, Saturday is Race#1 and Sunday is Race #2. The Sunday starting grid is based on the finish from Race #1.

This would be considered two races/time trials in one weekend.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Timing takes away too much track time.
If you were to do this you would have to take the best transponder time from the last run session of the day.
No standard timing format like we normally do on Sunday.

Fine if you are in a small run group, but I would hate to be the second driver in a top 10 car in orange and try to get a flying lap in traffic.

[Mike]

I did see an SDR PCA SOW event on the WSIR schedule, and also a CFoS date too.
Seems to be a lot of clubs competing for track dates.
Recently I searched 2008 track dates as my employer required us to bid our 2008 days off last weekend.
Will PCA be at Buttonwillow same time next year, were we able to get a Big Willow date?

My 2 cents.
2 issues, penny per issue.
1st timed laps both days
For example if SDR were only able to secure 4 TT track weekends you could still have 8 points earning track days. (double the track smack too)
With a smaller PCA TT schedule timed laps on both days might mitigate the occasional DNF (due to fuel ) or the inability to get a clean lap
Racers that could attend only one day either Saturday or Sunday might do so knowing it would be worth the points.
Changing the track configuration on Day 2 creates more interest and challenge. (POC does this at SOW)
Two track configurations in one weekend might bias the advantage to the AX savvy that can quickly adjust to a new track.
Or we could market it as such to get AX racers to join a TT.

2nd, traditional 2 lap scoring verse best lap of the day scoring.
I prefer your best lap in sessions 2, 3 and 4 of the day for scoring.
Would 3 timed sessions address the two driver shared car issue?
Strategy for a clean lap creates interest for me, it more resembles F1 knock out qualifying than a Qualcomm AX.
Racers that wanted to get out early Sunday could just use their best lap before lunch and then hit the road.
It appears to be a more efficient use of track time, there is the added plus of more track time for all Sunday afternoon.
We have already done this at the CFoS TT but only scored the last session.
(I suggest scoring the last 3 sessions of the day).
FWIW the POC STS program has been doing it this way for years frequently with over 100 total entries.

Dismissing the traditional "only 2 lap pressure to perform challenge" creates several event options.

[Jackie C]

I like the idea of 2 events in 2 days. This is how club racing is handled. I agree with Mike, it would be more exciting, would generate more interest and would make it a more viable option for people who can only attend one day. IF we were interested in a change, how would it be proposed? As a rules change? would the TT chairs decide? Do we poll the masses?

[martinreinhardt]

I agree, why not changing the TT format by taking the best lap time of each day for points.

Everybody can get multiple good laps in one run session even with traffic.

I think it would result in: more track time, no waiting in line for two laps of autocross style sprint and simplifies timing. Very few DNR and DNF's if the car breaks down or as Mike mentioned (and we witnessed ) run out of fuel, since at least some good lap times which count have been recorded for that day.

[kurquhart]

I like the current TT format just fine. To me, building up the the timed runs on Sunday is part of the challenge. Taking best times of the day(s) eliminates factors like tire management and car endurance from the competition.

[Otto]

I agree with Kris. Part of the problem of simply taking the fastest lap of a given day or the weekend is that the participants can't be sure how that lap time was obtained meaning how the car was equipped, if a shortcut was taken or who was even driving the car. An acceptable compromise is what we have done at California Speedway which is to run a specific "timing" session of about 20 minutes with the best time counting. This works in tracks that are long and if the field is not too crowded.

[Mike]

tire management and car endurance.

Hey Speedy,
Can you explain why timed runs on both days would eliminate tire management concerns?

Endurance issues imho are perhaps more valid when both days are timed, drivers could not simply save the equipment all day Saturday(as with the present system).

The chance is greater that your competitor might overdrive his car or tires pushing for a good Saturday best lap.

I like TT practice.
Having an all day DE Saturday is fun.
I'd like it more if it counted for something.
Imho it would be fun and a better value (entry $ and car/engine hours $) if Saturday actually became competitive too.

[Mike]

I agree with Kris. Part of the problem of simply taking the fastest lap of a given day or the weekend is that the participants can't be sure how that lap time was obtained meaning how the car was equipped, if a shortcut was taken or who was even driving the car. An acceptable compromise is what we have done at California Speedway which is to run a specific "timing" session of about 20 minutes with the best time counting. This works in tracks that are long and if the field is not too crowded.

True Otto,
Not to debate just info....
It requires honor and integrity.
If an instructor drives a student’s car he should take action.
Should he turn off the transponder and rely on the hot lap?
Should he tell Robert/timing not to count this car in that session?

We are not inventing the wheel as POC has used this system for years.
Your issues have already been addressed by POC procedures.
Yes the change might require the SDR TT chairs to implement some basic procedures as well.
Best,
Mike

Could this create an evil opportunity for Erik K to drive my car at SOW and turn the TTOD under my name....
Yes yes and TTOD will be mine!

[kurquhart]

tire management and car endurance.

Hey Speedy,
Can you explain why timed runs on both days would eliminate tire management concerns?

This cuts both ways. Those with one set of tires don't need to be so careful to make them last. Those with a second set of tires need to use them twice as often.

Endurance issues imho are perhaps more valid when both days are timed, drivers could not simply save the equipment all day Saturday(as with the present system).

The chance is greater that your competitor might overdrive his car or tires pushing for a good Saturday best lap.

I see your point. The counter is that cars could win Saturday that only run for 30 minutes before breaking.

[gulf911]

This cuts both ways. Those with one set of tires don't need to be so careful to make them last. Those with a second set of tires need to use them twice as often..

This doesn't make sense to me. If I have 1 set of tires , I am going to have to manage my tires to keep them as sticky as possible for 2 days not just one. The people with 2 sets of tires still have an advantage and will just swap tires for the run groups that are being timed each day.

I see your point. The counter is that cars could win Saturday that only run for 30 minutes before breaking.

911's don't break.... they run out of gas...

[Mike]

This doesn't make sense to me. If I have 1 set of tires , I am going to have to manage my tires to keep them as sticky as possible for 2 days not just one. The people with 2 sets of tires still have an advantage and will just swap tires for the run groups that are being timed each day.

So are you saying that racers with 2 sets of tires have an advantage over those with a single set regardless of the timing format.

I see the glass as half full.
The guy with only one set of tires will have a chance at timed runs on Saturday.
In fact his first chance at timed runs will be on Saturday session #2. (if sessions 2, 3 and 4 were timed)
At that time his single set of tires may have experianced only one session of wear.

[gulf911]

So are you saying that racers with 2 sets of tires have an advantage over those with a single set regardless of the timing format.

ummm....yeah, that was pretty obvious wasn't it..