Jan. Streets of Willow Springs reg available

[Mmagus]

I'm signed up! Who's going?

[Robert]

http://msreg.us/SOW0111

[Don Middleton]

Robert, have I missed your 2011 program for mixing DE and TT attendees at the same event?

I see that, with the lower requirements for DE participation, the DE folks will have their own run group. Makes good sense. And, I'm glad to see we are opening up participation for DEs. Another good move.

But, what happens with the TTrs? Will you compress those attendees into two run groups in order to maintain similar amounts of driving time to this and past years? Or, are we looking at a possible reduction in driving time for the TT participants?

[Robert]

Depends on sign-ups for each event. Track time should be at least as much as at our last Spring Mountain event. Certain elements of the new event structure are subject to Board approval at the December meeting. If anything changes as a result of the meeting, those who have signed up will be notified. An article will appear in the January Witness explaining everything about how 2011 track events will work. In the meantime, everyone should sign up now.

[gulf911]

separate run groups for DE means less track time.
I also see we are being charged extra to get timed? at a Time trial??
How about reducing the rate 25.00 for the DE people, that way the cost doesn't go up yet again for the TT'ers...

[Robert]

Again, the total number of groups at any given event will be dependent upon who signs up for what. Regardless of the mix, track time should be at least as much as at our last Spring Mountain event.

Many participants at a Time Trial (and everyone at an independent DE) do not participate in timed runs, thus for 2011 timed runs are now optional and carry a cost. You can negate that cost by signing up for our Season Pass and participating with us all season long. Track rental costs continue to rise and the Club needs to at least expect to break even on track events. The new pricing structure should achieve that, and those in the hunt for awards generally need to and do attend the bulk of season events anyhow, so they will incur no extra charge for timed runs.

[Don Middleton]

Again, the total number of groups at any given event will be dependent upon who signs up for what...

Sounds "tricky", Robert. If you get, for example, 40 TTrs with 25 DErs on Saturday, and 25 DErs on Sunday -- I can't imagine what you will be able to set up and still maintain track time levels. That kind of attendance is a "happy" problem for the Club's net at the event, but a bit of a nightmare for the organizer. Share some of your thoughts on such a scenario...???

[Robert]

It would depend on the distribution of driver skill levels/car capabilities within the two event categories. The scenario outlined above is unrealistic and doesn't provide enough information to properly analyze the situation.

That said, the forum isn't a great place to get into the minutiae of event logistics nor was it the original purpose of this thread that's now been hijacked (my apologies, Mark). I invite anyone who has significant concerns to contact me directly with questions and I'll be happy to discuss the topic with them. Or better yet, sign up, show up, and see for yourself!

[gulf911]

unless the website is incorrect, its 6k for the weekend, or 19 cars to break even for the track fee, not including insurance etc of course
lets say 25 cars to break even, I dont ever remember a 25 car TT, especially at streets.. Charging extra to be timed isnt right.
Unless we are subsidizing other TT's fee's?. You will get more participants by lowering the cost not raising it. ask me how I know.
At 40 cars , more typical , you are doubling your money and at the 275.00 per event ,that used to be charged a while ago,your break even is 22 cars.

[Mike]

Robert big thanks to you and Jack for starting and maintaining the SDR PCA TT series.
Will SOW be run CW or CCW?

Would PCA still have to charge for timed runs if PCA did it POC style, best lap counts during the last 3 sessions.
That would mean the track would always operate at capacity.
You could get a timed lap in Sunday at noon and get out early?
If it works for POC and it provides more track time why is PCA not considered it too?

The PCA TT series regulars enjoy the PCA discount, but the all or nothing design of the discount excludes anyone that can't make every TT event.
Speaking for Dan only, kill the season long discount if it means PCA won't have to raise prices for timed laps, right Dan?

Also interested in how you/Jack and the PCA Board feels about double point weekends with different track configurations Sat and Sun?
Would more TT racers participate if they could get double points?
Would more DE fans stay both days if they could run 2 different tracks?
Running the track both directions means twice the chance to set a track or a BRI record?
Just concepts to increase value/interest w/o increasing entry fees.

If Sunday is the same direction with afternoon run sessions canceled for timed laps I'd consider Saturday only.

[Mike]

I invite anyone who has significant concerns to contact me directly with questions and I'll be happy to discuss the topic with them. Or better yet, sign up, show up, and see for yourself!

Hi Robert, I posted mine above before I read your newest post above.
I decided to leave it in hopes that in addition to you, PCA board members might consider my concepts as well.
If you choose to respond to my questions feel free to please do so in a pm.

[rshon]

So far the only description of next year's DE/TT fee structure is embedded in the January TT Motorsports Registration page, it requires some deciphering, and you have to go to the third screen to see the actual costs.

Is the Mar 11 DE-only a required event for the season pass, i.e. does missing it cost you one of the three allowable missed days? What about CFOS? Does missing that event mean that one has used up their three allowable missed days?

Also, there is no explanation/rationale for the $25 timed runs fee.

It would be helpful if someone could post details of the season pass program, how the mixed DE/TT system will work, and the rationale for the new fee structure.

[Mmagus]

And here I just signed up figuring, "Looks like a price increase. Ah well, I guess it costs...what it costs."

Silly me.

We also need a smiley face with a ski mask and 9mm so people can use it when hijacking a thread

[Mike]

We also need a smiley face with a ski mask and 9mm so people can use it when hijacking a thread

I know you are joking and the exchange here has been helpful.
This thread was my first notice of any changes to the TT program.
Robert mentioned our questions will be answered in a future WW article.
When the Jan WW arrives I'll be informed as to what changes have been made to PCA TT events.
Since we are waiting for the Jan WW...
Can we consider extending the early registration discount till a week after the WW TT info can be disseminated?

The PCA Halloween DE at Chuckwalla was awesome, 250 track miles and 35 gallons of race gas.
The event info shared on this forum leading up to the Chuckwalla event was awesome!!!
I’m easy, just plan 3 DE only events a year at Chuckwalla and I’m in.

[Don Middleton]

It would be helpful if someone could post details of the season pass program, how the mixed DE/TT system will work, and the rationale for the new fee structure.

No doubt, Russell. I guess Robert is waiting on the December Board meeting approval's before making a formal announcement of the program. That Board meeting should be interesting. The vote of the Board should be posted on the Forum shortly thereafter. This would give everyone a chance to "digest" the new rules, pricing, etc. I don't think waiting on a WW article will provide proper notice. The on-going uncertainty while waiting for WW will hold down registration and attendance.