Parade Laps redux

[martinreinhardt]

Okay no more parade laps.
I was going to do a poll that the next autocross to see what everybody thinks.
All negative e-mails will be forwarded to Kim's mailbox.

Jerry, go with your gut - take the poll.

Don - There was already a poll at the beginning of this year and the parade laps didn't win (see http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4572&hilit=parade+lap). Who came up with parade laps in the first place? We never had them before 2009.

[Don Middleton]

Okay no more parade laps.
I was going to do a poll that the next autocross to see what everybody thinks.
All negative e-mails will be forwarded to Kim's mailbox.

Jerry, go with your gut - take the poll.

Don - There was already a poll at the beginning of this year and the parade laps didn't win (see http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4572&hilit=parade+lap). Who came up with parade laps in the first place? We never had them before 2009.

Well, thanks, Martin. I had forgotten about that. I see there wasn't much participation, but I've never forgotten that Kim was not a fan. He made that clear to Bill and I when we were AX chairs in 2009. I see both sides of the issue. And, I can go either way with it. That's why I suggested Jerry just do what he planned.

BTW, we must have been doing the parade laps long before 2009 because I know Bill and I didn't start them. We just picked them up for years prior.

[lbevins]

My answer to a poll regarding keeping or deleting the parade lap as part of an AX : Parade laps must die!

[Aavitt]

Someone, somewhere along the line, must have seen some positive value added by the Parade Lap. I re-read the posts from January 2011 and only 22 people voted on this issue. I personally have never had a bad parade lap, I always stay a comfortable distance behind the car in front of me and I really appreciate the value of this slow lap. We all love more laps, but with the timing issues, the delays of waiting for everyone to get in line, and the added # of drivers, it seems like it may have to go by the wayside for now. But please do not discount it as a learning tool and there is definitely more time to talk to your students when driving a Parade lap then driving an "at speed" lap even at 5/10's. Certainly no instructors are driving their first lap at 5/10's.

Angela Avitt
Car #425

[JERRY B]

I determine the last poll was not accurate due to the fact that most of the people that would benefit from the parade laps do not log on to the forum.
It seems that most of the higher time people, don't want the parade lap.
And the newer people want the parade laps.
So what you gonna do bad boys.

[ttweed]

(see http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4572&hilit=parade+lap). Who came up with parade laps in the first place? We never had them before 2009.

As I posted in that earlier thread, my earliest memories of PCA AX events (back to 1997) was that everyone who wanted to took a parade lap before the event began, right after the driver's meeting, while the corner workers were being deployed, but there was not a parade lap to begin every group. This helped clean dust off the track and give people who missed the track walk a chance to see the course. It was sometimes skipped if the driver's meeting was running late to keep the event on schedule.

After the parade lap, the first run group would stage their cars in pre-grid, while the other groups would take the track exit and go back to the pits. Since they would miss the parade lap, the first corner-working group would get a parade lap to start their first run session. All other groups would start with a hot lap on their first sessions.

TT

[jenniferreinhardt]

For me the parade laps are chaotic and definitely not necessary for experienced Drivers, especially ones who drive TTs and have lots of seat time. I understand it may help beginners but we've already thrown in extra laps anyway. It also sounds like a nightmare for the Truck to get out and place corner workers while a parade lap is happening.

I thought AXs had a quick learning objective?

[Mmagus]

(see http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4572&hilit=parade+lap). Who came up with parade laps in the first place? We never had them before 2009.

As I posted in that earlier thread, my earliest memories of PCA AX events (back to 1997) was that everyone who wanted to took a parade lap before the event began, right after the driver's meeting, while the corner workers were being deployed, but there was not a parade lap to begin every group. This helped clean dust off the track and give people who missed the track walk a chance to see the course. It was sometimes skipped if the driver's meeting was running late to keep the event on schedule.

After the parade lap, the first run group would stage their cars in pre-grid, while the other groups would take the track exit and go back to the pits. Since they would miss the parade lap, the first corner-working group would get a parade lap to start their first run session. All other groups would start with a hot lap on their first sessions.

TT

This could be a nice solution.

[Don Middleton]

...my earliest memories of PCA AX events (back to 1997)...

Thanks for the reminder, Tom. With that, it's all coming back to me. Helps to put some perspective on the how we got here.

[Aavitt]

I think what Tom has brought to light about the past could be a very good solution to the Parade Lap debate. It becomes optional, some love it, some hate it. So if the stars all align, drivers must be in tech line by 7:30am, track walk 7:30am (I see the tech people miss the track walk no matter what!!) As mentioned, many other volunteers miss the track walk also. Perhaps the drivers meeting could be at 8:15am instead of 8:30am. If we limit who speaks during the meeting (as was suggested in a prior post) by 8:30am to 8:45am we could be sending out corner workers and allow a parade lap, and it should be made very clear, not at speed, or 5/10's, a real Parade lap.
You cant make everyone happy, but it should be worth a try.

Angela Avitt
Car #425

[Kim Crosser]

Before we try a new form of parade lap, perhaps we need to think about some questions.

First, let's define a real-life scenario. Assume Run groups are (in order):
Red, Blue, White, Green, Orange, Yellow, with Orange as the first Corner Working group.
(Feel free to choose any other pattern of pairs, as long as the Red/Blue, Orange/Yellow, and White/Green groups (Instructor/Student pairs) are kept intact.)

1. Do we let students drive without their instructors for the parade lap?
If not, then some Yellow students don't ever get one, since their Orange instructors are out corner working.
If we do, then we need to have dead time for them to park and get out of their cars after the parade lap and find and get into their instructors' cars. AND - do we really want new students on the track without adult supervision??? Besides any risk, are they learning anything?

2. If the parade lap immediately precedes the first run group, who is driving during the parade lap?
If it is the Red instructors (and the first group is ALWAYS instructors), then the Blue students never drive a parade lap.
If instead the Blue students drove, then we would have to have them switch cars and drivers after the parade lap before the first run group went out. (Does the term "Chinese Fire Drill" come to mind?)
Students in later run groups *could* drive, with their instructors riding, but is there a real value in having a student drive one lap with no prior instructor ride, and then go park for an hour or two before their next session?

3. Do we have a parade lap for Orange later, since they missed it getting set up for corner working?
If not, then they never get a parade lap.
If so, then they would get a parade lap, but what about their Yellow students who didn't get to drive the parade because their instructor was corner working?

4. If most of the drivers in the parade lap are instructors, is this really contributing much to the student?

5. What about two (or more) driver cars? Does only one driver get the parade lap?


If the point of the parade lap is to give the students a driver's seat look at the course at a slower pace, then I would suggest we just run a slow lap at the start of the three Student run groups - Blue, Green, and Yellow. Skip it entirely for Red, White, and Orange. And we don't even need to call it a parade lap - just take it a bit slower! (Personally, I would rather my student be able to start driving immediately at the speed at which they feel comfortable, rather than being paced behind someone else in a parade lap.)

If the point of the parade lap is to dust off the track, then just run the parade lap as a one-time "free for all" before the first run group, and don't worry about who gets to drive or not drive the lap. Don't try to make it up to the corner working groups later, don't worry about students not getting a parade lap.
Stuff happens...

[Jackie C]

Sorry Angela, but this is one of the few times I agree with Mark R!

[mrondeau]

Sorry Angela, but this is one of the few times I agree with Mark R!

I'll be saving this quote.

[Aavitt]

Based on the instructor pairings of Red/Blue, Orange/Yellow, White/Green. First of all- Red, Orange, or White always drives first. Blue, Yellow, or Green always corners works first. An Instructor group always drives first. If RED drives first, then yellow or green is corner working, so their students in blue are available. If Orange drives first, blue or green is corner working so their students in yellow are available. If white drives first, blue or yellow is corner working so their students in Green are available. Whichever group, yellow, blue or green that corner works first will get a Parade lap in their first session. If Red drives first and green is corner working then green gets a parade lap in their first session. Granted, I admit that if they are a student in the first corner working group, they will have already gone with their instructor as a passenger, but they have not driven the track themselves. Not everyone in green is a student either. So it is fair solution and everyone can get a parade lap if they want one. I think it will work, it worked in the past. Noone is forced to do a parade lap.
I happen to be holding in my hand the last 18 Autocross run session configurations. There are 6 different scenarios.
I think most of you know them pretty well, but just in case,
Red, Blue, Orange, Yellow, White, Green, --- Green is corner working first
Red, Blue, White, Green, Orange, Yellow --- Yellow is corner working first
Orange, Yellow, White, Green Red, Blue ---- -Blue is Corner working first
Orange, Yellow, Red, Blue, White, Green--- Green is corner working first
White, Green, Orange, Yellow, Red, Blue, --- Blue is corner working first
White, Green, Red, Blue, Orange, Yellow ---- Yellow is corner working first

I think this could be a fair solution for those that would like to have a Parade lap.

Angela Avitt,
Car #425

[mrondeau]

I think this could be a fair solution for those that would like to have a Parade lap.

Angela Avitt,
Car #425

Unless you happen to be one of the corner workers in the first session or someone on the tech team.