Why aren't you autocrossing? A chance to say why.

[John Straub]

Thanks Ralph and Jerry...I too am glad this is being kicked around.

Jerry, you and the other Autocross Chairs are doing a bitchin job, one of the hardest jobs in the club!!!!

I hope my post, if a little off what others were posting, gets people thinking.

John

[Mmagus]

Well...life...or death as the case may be.

One month it was a wedding I performed. The next event it was a Sunday and I had work. Then we hoped to attend even the Concours and a funeral came up.

Fortunately I have fantastic AX teammates who knew I would have to miss and soldiered on without me. It has made me very aware of just how busy, tough, and downright frustrating things can get for folks. So, for those of you who feel bad for missing I will think twice before giving you a "lighthearted ribbing" as I am right there with you.

"Lord willing and the creek don't rise" I will be back in October!

Mark
Ax Whippingboy

[Rsylvestri]

I think as time and driving talents progress for some of us after doing DE's then some TT's it just makes more sense to save $$ and time doing the driving events you enjoy. I still think Ax is a kick, it's just you have to make all your spare time work for you and your family.
Big tracks offer a ton more seat time but you pay for that with track cost, tires, lodging ect..
When you first start it's usually a street car and AXing is exciting and fun, once you progress with more seat time doing DE's then on to your first TT for me it was a no brainer which was going to take the bulk of the driving budget.
I still enjoy the 1-2 times a year I can make it out to a SDR AX, runs smoothly, best around. But a "man's got to know his limitations". I've still got a young family growin at home my .02

[Dan Chambers]

Like many, I've come to see the value of the TT/DE series for cost vs seat-time. The fun (thrill ) of more speed and more seat time has encouraged me to re-build my "street car with mod's for tracking" into a "track car with mod's for streeting." There is a huge return on the fun ratio with the changes I've made ... and I used to be a hard-core AX guy. So, like many, I have to bank both my revenue, and my free-time-at-home-with-my wife situation so that I can capitalize on the big track events. In this case, it's conserving both time and money to do the TT/DE events.

Ironically, I voiced this concern in 2003 when the TT/DE/Club Racing events came to town (or left the town, really). When TT/DE's moved away from the Q I said it would impact the Q events. Everyone thought I was crazy. We were having 130 to 140 people per AX, and no one thought we'd see a slow-down in the neumbres. (Then again, no one thought there was such a thing as a real estate bubble in 2003/2004, either. )

Now, I've become part of the AX attrition problem. Like so many others, I've chosen big tracks and 2.6 hours' for $300.00 seat time over old broken pavement and 12 minutes' seat time for $50.00. To be more competitive (and stop the incescent point-bye's that an underpowered car promotes) I've invested in big tracks for the future, with satisfying results.

Thanks for cranking this topic up, John. I think it will shed a lot of light on what's happening to the AX program.

[Greg Phillips]

You might want to take a look at the list of top attendees and see where they are now

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/y ... directlink

(had trouble embedding this image)

Greg

[RickK]

Do to family situations and requirements I have put my 911SC into almost daily driver use over the last several years and worry that the 30+ year old car may not handle the abuse of a rough weekend and be ready for me to commute on Monday morning reliably.

Add to that my work schedule, need for a new helmet and harnesses and my constant involvement with struggling start-up companies along with the economic climate and financially the $50 cost plus the extra maintenance and wear and tear on the car and the whole thing is a stretch. I constantly plan to get back out there but it just never seems to get prioritized high enough when push comes to shove given the other constraints.

Soon. I hope.

[martinreinhardt]

Personally, I enjoy both Autocrossing and Club Racing as they are different forms of motorsport. I am trying to get as much track time as my schedule allows me to. Although my priority is club racing with my F3, this year my racing schedule allowed us to attend all Autocross events as well.

I am not interested in DE's, because they are not timed and I am racing to win not just for fun.
I Time Trialed for many years and had fun chasing friends around various tracks while trying to get the best lap times.

Autocrosses are easy to get to and are technical car control events versus wheel-to-wheel racing which is more complex and strategic, where the winner is not necessarily the one with the fastest lap, but rather the one that crosses the finish line first.

[Bob Gagnon]

Since starting this thread I have been reading the posts and some trends seem emergent:

1) The autocross series has been successful in enlisting people to track their cars and move on to DE, TT or Road Racing events - but people leave and don't come back.
2) The autocross series is seen as less "bang for the buck" in terms of track time once people leave it for the other events
3) The tarmac is a concern to some, particularly when compared to a dedicated open track.
4) The economy has taken a toll on autocross as a venue for disposable income due to associated costs (helmets, harnesses, tires, service intervals, etc.) seemingly more than the entry fee.
5) One person mentioned age and health issues compromise their athleticism as required for corner working and I have to ring in here myself on that - so some older folks may be leaving for that.

[jenniferreinhardt]

I guess I'll go where no one else has gone.

I'll speak for some that are no longer on this forum and some that are no longer in the club...

They are not running any more because they were not treated well...I know of some women that have left because of how they were treated by other women, through jealousy.

Guys that have left because they did not fit the "mold"...they may have been perceived as abrasive, or they were not cool, or did not drive the right car, and others were not friendly to them.

John

Hey John - I'm curious as to when these people were treated unkindly? I have been involved in the club for about 5 years now, and was always treated kindly as well as going out of my way to treat others the same way. I heard there there used to be more 'good 'ol boys' club antics than there are now, as well as more 'holier than thou' attitudes in the past.

As far as women and jealousy being the reason some women left, well none that I've seen either. Although we have had some gals that cried and wanted to be coddled and just couldn't handle the competition in a predominantly man's sport. They basically did it to themselves.

[Mike]

Hi Bob,
#3 and #5.
#3 Should be ok, when Q AX corner workers remove larger asphalt rocks.
#5 if only there was a $20 valet corner worker to cover my turn shagging cones.

[John Straub]

Jennifer said...

Hey John - I'm curious as to when these people were treated unkindly? I have been involved in the club for about 5 years now, and was always treated kindly as well as going out of my way to treat others the same way. I heard there there used to be more 'good 'ol boys' club antics than there are now, as well as more 'holier than thou' attitudes in the past.

As far as women and jealousy being the reason some women left, well none that I've seen either. Although we have had some gals that cried and wanted to be coddled and just couldn't handle the competition in a predominantly man's sport. They basically did it to themselves.

Hi Jennifer,

The only point I would like to make now for everyone, is: Be nice to fellow club members, they may not fit in to be your best buddy, but they still have feelings...if they don't feel accepted by others they eventually won't be back. And the club losses in the long run. It not only hurts the Autocross events, but other events too.

John

[jenniferreinhardt]

Good Reminder for everyone John!

It was nice to hear from a visiting 912 Couple at the AX Sunday. At the AX Awards Ceremony, the Husband thanked everyone for the fun Porsche weekend and the hospitality they received. He commented what a great group of people the club has!

[gulf911]

Perhaps not the norm, but I left ax and came back, somewhat.
I have no idea where Dan gets his $300 for big track events because that isnt even close to the costs associated. The entry fee alone is $320, not to mention extra for being timed, transponder, tires, lodging, gas etc. you can rationalize it anyway you want but a dollar is a dollar. I did many years of AX in AM class with Mike G, Curt Anderson, Mick Rosen, Tom T. and a few others , since then AM has but a couple people in it. I then did TT's for a while but the costs associated kept going up , and secondarily it's a pain driving up and back in my car at such long distances. My car and I arent getting any younger.. . There are downsides agreed, Running around in the heat with no shade picking up cones for almost 2 hours sucks , but since they will never pay for corner workers its a necessary evil.
So I am back to AX, I really enjoy it, the people are great, and my car is well suited. So unfortunately you are stuck with me until they lower the TT prices...

[Mike Cornelius]

Similar to the other TT participants...

not enough seat time at the autocrosses compared to TTs. I do like the DEs at the the Q though!

[Kim Crosser]

One theme in this thread strikes me - "I did AX and then moved up to DE/TT for the seat time."
While there are some, like me, whose spouse isn't keen on me taking off a whole weekend for a DE/TT event away from home, it sounds like a key issue is that a lot of folks find DE/TT much more fun and decide not to run AX anymore.
Nothing wrong with that, but what that means is that we need new blood. How do we get more new people into AX? They may "graduate" to big track events, but some may find AX is a lot of fun and it's local.
Perhaps some mailers to the 2500 or so PCA SDR members (team with Black Forest, Pioneer, Hoehn to share part of a mailer)? "Enjoying your Porsche? Want to find out what it will really do? Want to drive it fast without worrying about tickets? Come down to Qualcomm Stadium on _date_ and see what Autocrossing is all about."