Cayman on Steroids

[Gary Burch]

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/15/porsche-cayman-gtr-made-in-the-u-s-a/

[ttweed]

That's the same kind of car that MOM is planning to build, no? A Cayman w/ X51 3.8 engine. Farnbacher Loles is the team that Wolf Henzler drives for--a very successful outfit. It will be interesting to see how that one goes....

TT

[RickK]

But why the 3.8 with X51 package? Why not build it right and use the GT3 motor? Similar horsepower but much higher reliability.

[ttweed]

But why the 3.8 with X51 package? Why not build it right and use the GT3 motor? Similar horsepower but much higher reliability.

I agree, it would be nicer that way, but I think the expense wouldn't justify it. Besides dealing with the dry sump oiling system plumbing, which the Cayman is missing, I believe Bob Gagnon pointed out in a previous thread that you would have to change the gearbox, too, as the GT3 engine will not mate to the Boxster/996 bellhousing. You would either have to adapt the Boxster tranny to the GT3 block, or have to buy a GT3 gearbox as well as the engine (that's ~ $60K+), and it is still not clear that the GT3 R&P can be flipped in the housing to accomodate the mid-engine layout of the Cayman. It is much more "plug and play" to do the job with an X51 transplant.

Here's the thread where it was discussed before:
http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9617&highlight=#9617

TT

[Brad Roberts]

The car pictured doesmt have the 3.8 in it yet. I called them to get some info on the electronics.

Why we dont use the GT3 engine: There is no tranny readily available that will work in the mid-engine config. The GT3 engine and 996TT engines are all based on the 993 air cooled block (which means we could bolt it to a 1967 Bug transaxle) The X51 engine is based on the Boxster/996 2.5/3.2/3.4/3.6 block which all bolt right up to any stock Boxster mid-engined cable shifted tranny.

We are awaiting delivery of our CaymanS for the transplant and front bumper change to GT3 Cup. We special ordered the car without PASM and some other "stuff" that typically comes "standard".


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[Brad Roberts]

and it is still not clear that the GT3 R&P can be flipped in the housing to accomodate the mid-engine layout of the Cayman

Not possible. I would have been using G50 boxes in the 914's years ago if you could flip the diff in these late model boxes. There is physically not enough room to do this in the case... and the hypoid design for the gears doesnt lend itself to running "backwards" I have built several 930 4 speeds with flipped diffs for V8 914 conversion cars. I have to cut the case and do all kinds of wicked machine work to make them work.

I spoke with Paul Guard many moons ago about makine reverse hypoid gear sets for this exact reason... no go.... not enough demand.


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[Otto]

It would appear that this inability to install a GT3-design (read racing suitable) engine to a Cayman is one of the reasons why Porsche has no plans of racing the Cayman nor did it ever raced the Boxter. From all we have read, neither the 986/987 nor the 996/997 engines, which share the same architecture, are suitable for racing. What a petty as the Cayman platform and layout surely would be great for racing. This particular shortcoming of the engine may also be a reason why we may never see a Club Sport Cayman or have not seen a Club Sport Boxster for that matter.

[Brad Roberts]

I personally believe Porsche is "sneaking" up on the fact that they will race this new generation engine combo. They have quickly proven they can get the same power out of it on pump gas as they can with the 993 based GT3 engine. I feel it is a matter of time until we see this new gen engine being raced by them.

I personally never thought I would see a Honda/Nissan/Toyota based engine used for drag racing... but they are doing it. This new gen engine by Porsche will work for racing. Just like the original air cooled engines, it took time for them to work out all the issues when they started racing with them.

We will see.


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[Dan Chambers]

And on a related topic:

I'm curious as to putting a different engine in a like-car: all parts being Porsche.

As exampled: a 3.8 in a 3.4-built car. or a 3.0L in a 2.5L car. Etc. With swapping engines, don't you also have to swap harness and computer/DME systems as well. If so, are there a lot of complications?

So ... this is where I'm going.

Recently I witnessed a 3L 968 engine mounted in a 924S (with transaxle, too.) at an A-X. Now, I've been told this is "not a good idea (or at one shop ... not possible) since the OBD would read very strange codes, etc when going to service the car, especially if you had a running/driving problem."

I know very very little about OBD systems and working with the diagnostics. (I have been able to fix my Dodge truck with an OBDII diagnostics box, but that's about it.) However, if I were to take a 924S/968 conversion vehicle to a shop and say: "Gee, I seem to get a bit of trouble in high rpm with power-loss...." could a shop not plug in an OBD reader to the DME system, and using 968 codes, help determine that there is an issue with ... say .. the injectors.....or the engine position/engine speed sensors, etc.? Afterall, it's the same engine, electrical harness, and DME/Motronic system as a 968 chassis, right?

In other words, if I tell the shop "this is a 968 engine and harness/DME system" could they not figure it out? Very curious about engine swap applications.

[rtyson]

Still no LSD?

[Bob Gagnon]

Porsche has already raced the Cayman!! They called it a 911 GT1 though.

It would be very simple for Porsche to cast a new GT3 gearbox housing and install the R&P on the other side...that's exactly what they did when they built the Boxster S 6 speed. The gear cluster in the Boxster S's 6 speed is the same as the 911 but with the R&P flipped in a new housing.

Porsche does not want the mid-engined cars to be faster than the rear-engined cars, that is why we won't see a Cayman GT3 unless the market finally wakes up.

It is fun to Porsche's marketing department fight the laws of physics though.

I heard from a friend who has contacts at PCNA that the guys at Weissach built an X-51 Cayman and Weideiking said he never wanted it to happen again or be published that it had happened......

[paul-silver]

I heard from a friend who has contacts at PCNA that the guys at Weissach built an X-51 Cayman and Weideiking said he never wanted it to happen again or be published that it had happened......

I seem to recall that the X-51 that Mind Over Motorsports has was intended to be installed in a Cayman S...

[Brad Roberts]

I seem to recall that the X-51 that Mind Over Motorsports has was intended to be installed in a Cayman S...

Correct. As soon as the car arrives. *Should* be the first week of March.



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