Idea for revamping the classification of cars

[Kim Crosser]

An inexpensive (and ZERO points) first step would be to get your suspension adjusted to a "performance" set-up. Get maximum camber on front and rear and remove the factory toe-in and you will get noticeably better handling than the factory/dealer standard set-up. I think Pioneer did my Boxster for less than $200 (3 years ago, so don't recall the exact cost, and I was in for some other regular servicing).

That (and a bunch of seat time) is all it takes to be very competitive in the street stock classes.

[gulf911]

Bryan,
While seat time is the #1 performance enhancer, tires are all the difference at an ax. You will not get near as much noticable difference with sway bars. Sway bars help with the 'feel' and reduces body roll. All of the above examples and suggestions are good, as explained above you do not want the car too stiff for an ax. A competition tire like kumho etc, will shave 2-3 seconds of your time as compared to a street tire.

FDIC insured...your milege may vary...yada..yada...yada..

[ajackson]

Another thing that can really help for zero points is seats/harness. Lets you concentrate on driving rather than trying to stay in place. I may be wrong, but I would guess that most of the top drivers have at least a harness.

[bryanearll]

Loren over at 911 Design, who I was referred to over the weekend, suggested similar updates and changes. It's not exactly cheap so I'm thinking about it.

I have a question for Steve G., Martha suggested asking you; how many points would these updates "cost" me in the AX rules. Just 2 points for shocks, springs and sway bar? 6 points for grippy tires and larger wheels?
bryan

[kary]

2 pts - nonstock springs
2 pts non-stock sway bars

Tire sizes determine points 2 pts for 270 to 285 and 4 pts above 285. PCA does not care about wheel sizes like POC.

Tire compound:
2 pts for 50 -99
4 pts below 50
6 pts for race slicks

So if you change springs (and shocks if you want), sway bars and use 285's tires you would have 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 pts. Now add for tire compound. A kumho would get you 2 more points, a Dunlop would get you two more points, a Hoosier would get your 4 more points, and so on.

[Greg Phillips]

At first look, it would appear to be 2 points for springs, 2 points for sway bar and 2-4 points for R rubber in stock sizes and 4-6 points if significantly larger than stock. It would most likely take you out of stock and into production.
I would recommend sticking with street tires and minimal changes to the suspension until you have the driver adjusted and getting the maximal amount of the base car before trying too many changes.
Greg

[MikeD]

Keep in mind that it looks like for next you will only get 2 points in MSS. Spend them wisely young grasshopper...

[Curt]

As someone new to AX, with a stock 996, I LIKE the idea of picking and chosing what things to upgrade on the car, and the more possibilities for small point tweeks the better.

Clearly tires are a first choice, I surfed an entire evening last night educating myself on tire choices. Yokohama Advan A048 (4pts) I'm struggling here because I might get better performance with a slightly less impressive tire and a sway bar upgrade and still stay in the stock class.

Swapping the sway bar is another excellent choice. (4pts) But as I'm reading the rules, you can get away with a whole lot of other sweet updates for those 4 pts besides changing just the sway bar. Please further define "strengthening the suspension pieces", does this mean you can't change the shocks and springs? Or does this also include swapping the sway bar because in effect a larger diameter sway bar does strengthen the suspension?

Anyway, having options is always good, but having lots of competitors to beat is good too.

One performance driving school down and suddenly he's storming the track.
bryan

Seems like the consensus here is to leave the car alone and work on the driver. I agree. Stay in SS class for at least 2 years.

Your car's stock performance is at SO much higher of a level than your driving skill after one driving school. I'll bet you might be capable of getting 50% of your cars performance right now. Try and be at the point that you are getting everything there is out of your car, then think about upgrading it. By that point you'll also be able to feel what the upgrades have done for your car.

I drove a 911 in stock classes for 4 years and had an absolute blast. I then built a fully dedicated track car that needs tires every other event and loads of more attention. I don't think I am having ANY MORE FUN than I was when the car was stock, but I'm sure spending more. I also THOUGHT I was pretty good in that old car. Now my car feels perfect on track, but it has brought out a glaring weakness in the equation. I suck. What I need still is seat time, and LOTS OF IT.

Plus, you are going to get totally b'yatch slapped in SS class for a while. It's going to be even worse if you move up to a higher class.

I'll bet if you throw an experienced 911 driver in your car at the next autocross, they'll be 3-5 seconds a lap faster than you. In an autocross, losing by only one second is like losing by three touchdowns so 3-5 seconds is like losing 100-0.

The enthusiasm after the drivng school is normal. So is looking at improving the car, but looking at all the experienced drivers responses here, you should be seeing a theme. Look at the nut behind the wheel.

And be warned, you have taken the first hit off of the Porsche go fast crack pipe. This might be more addictive than crack. It's probably more expensive too.

[MikeD]

... I suck....

Curt, are you sure you wanted that out in public where Capt. Neptune could see it?

'Course what am I talking about, I'm like the 1st Mate on Sir Capitan's boat...

[Curt]

... I suck....

Curt, are you sure you wanted that out in public where Capt. Neptune could see it?

'Course what am I talking about, I'm like the 1st Mate on Sir Capitan's boat...

That was a description of my driving ability, not a solicitation.

Bah, after that last event, Capt Neptune is my daddy. What can I say? Our times from the event are public already. I'm surprised that the Supreme Council Of Nine Elevenness hasn't revoked my car and my license after that spanking by that lowly, smelly, waterpumper. I might actually need to improve my driving a little bit to warrant being able to say I suck.

[Jad]

Hey Curt, with a 911, much like production Ferraris, you are buying heritage and prestige, no one expects the driver to have any ability or skill....if they did, they could save $50k and go just as fast in a 944

[kary]

Your car's stock performance is at SO much higher of a level than your driving skill after one driving school. I'll bet you might be capable of getting 50% of your cars performance right now. Try and be at the point that you are getting everything there is out of your car, then think about upgrading it. By that point you'll also be able to feel what the upgrades have done for your car.

Curt, maybe your right, we should revoke your 911 license. Here you are telling a newbie that he cannot even get 50% out of his car and a water pumper beats you Maybe if you could get 50% you might have beaten Jad

[Kim Crosser]

Maybe Curt was just acknowledging that those 911's are much more difficult to drive well than, say, a water-pumping 944 or Boxster?

[bryanearll]

Be sure and don't give me a chance in the MS/S class as that will just make the glory more satisfying!!
B

[Curt]

I don't think anyone would dispute that an early 911 is harder to drive at 10/10 than a Boxster or a 944. The next logical step from there is, maybe I need a Miata?

It's funny, Mick Rosen and I, after we found out our scores, we were walking back to our cars and Mick said, "In timed runs, do you think about what Jack Miller said in the drivers meeting when he said 'Whatever you do, don't go off the track because it screws up the track and timed runs for everybody else.''

I said, "yeah I think about that a little and I was a little more cautious than I should have been." (obviously!!! ) Then we asked Dan if he thought about what Jack said and Dan, ever so eloquently stated "It didn't bother me" Good thing I'M not a minister.