Fatal driving

[MikeD]

As I'm sure you all have to doubt read or seen in the news, there have been two fatal car wrecks in North County in the last 3 weeks involving teens. As some of you may not know, I volunteer for High School students at my church (Horizon RSF). Both wrecks have impacted kids I know and care about. And, especially with this most recent one, I can't help thinking that if the driver knew more about car control and vehicle dynamics, these students might still be alive. I know both drivers were doing a lot of things that were against the law and their parents rules (even one involving alcohol). But if they had been taught the lessons we teach in our PDS, they might have been able to better interpret the feedback from the car, and avoid the wreck altogether. Maybe. I'm not certain. But it is possible.

With that dramatic introduction, here's what I would like to do, and why I need you help. I'm thinking about, and beginning to research putting on a Clinic (similar to our PDS) for new drivers. For High School students that have a drivers license and have basic driving skills. But have not been taught how to control a car in adverse conditions. It would not be about teaching them performance driving. It would be about how to give proper inputs. And how to interpret and manager the cars feedback. At this point, I do not have a venue, nor a date, or even know if this is going to become a reality. But I wanted to put it out there and get your feedback.

I'm not asking the club, itself to do this (although this could be a HUGE community outreach if the club did get involved). But I would like to know if any of you PDS instructors out there would be willing to donate yet more of your time if I can get this thing off the ground? It would also be extremely helpful if the CDI's (or the club) would allow me to plagiarize the material they use in the PDS Friday Chalk Talk.

You in?

[mrondeau]

Mike,

As one of the CDI's, I agree that young drivers have no idea how to control a vehicle in adverse conditions or even in perfect conditions if any one variable should change. I would personally agree to help out with this and see no reason why some of the techniques we use at PDS could not be used to help these drivers learn car control. The most important exercise that we use and one that always seems to have a direct impact with our students during everyday driving is the Threshold braking and Accident Avoidance. When combined with throttle steering and pitch and catch techniques, these exercises can save lives. We can also hammer home the points that we teach at all of our schools and that we as instructors at AX, DE and TT use every time we instruct. It only takes a second of inattention to get into an accident. The farther ahead you look, the more likely you are to avoid an incident. Let me know what I can do to assist you.

[MikeD]

Thanks Mark, for your quick response and willingness to help out. I agree looking ahead is a key concept in every driving situation. I can't tell you how much that concept helped me become a "smoother" driver. Smoothness (which includes looking ahead) and feedback interpretation are skills that I think can go a long way to avoiding wrecks and make everyone a better driver, especially young new drivers. Accident Avoidance and Threshold braking are a must. Actually, I think all the exercises are good for learning car control (just deemphasize the racing implications). But the curriculum will really depend on the venue I can find, if any.

I think one thing that might help me right now, would be to have an electronic copy of the classroom material. I can take out the race specific material. Then use it in my discussion with people about the idea. Do you have it in electronic format? Can you email (miked@doughertytech.com) it to me without getting into Copyright issues?

Thanks again for your interest.

[mrondeau]

Mike, sent you an emai.

[MR LIPP]

The BMW club has done something like this and has gotten a sponsor to help fund it. Ask Matt Kogan about it.
http://www.tirerack.com/features/motorsports/street_survival.jsp
They do the accident avoidance and wet track exercises on the south side of the west lot when they do an autocross.

[ChuckS]

Mike,
I am willing to help in any way you want.

As Martin notes, the BMW Street Survival course is exactly what you are talking about. Tire Rack sponsors it and it is run in San Diego as well as OC (I think) and all over the country. I don't know about any limitations regarding their course materials or program, but it is what our program would need to be modified to in order to change the emphasis from performance driving to "safety" driving.

I believe that there is plenty of need for an additional course. Perhaps a discussion with BMW club first would be in order and then you can decide how best to move forward.

Whatever you decide, I will support it and I am sure most of the Porsche club will as well.

Feel free to contact me directly.

Chuck

[gocart]

I received this from Ford recently. You may want to contact them. https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/

I have a PDF about their program, but can' t figure out how to post it here.

[MikeD]

The BMW club has done something like this and has gotten a sponsor to help fund it. Ask Matt Kogan about it.
http://www.tirerack.com/features/motorsports/street_survival.jsp
They do the accident avoidance and wet track exercises on the south side of the west lot when they do an autocross.

Thanks. I didn't know Tire Rack did something like that. Might be better to coordinate with them and BMW CCA, than to try and design my own course.

[MikeD]

Mike, sent you an emai.

Got it, Thanks again Mark.

[MikeD]

Mike,
I am willing to help in any way you want.

As Martin notes, the BMW Street Survival course is exactly what you are talking about. Tire Rack sponsors it and it is run in San Diego as well as OC (I think) and all over the country. I don't know about any limitations regarding their course materials or program, but it is what our program would need to be modified to in order to change the emphasis from performance driving to "safety" driving.

I believe that there is plenty of need for an additional course. Perhaps a discussion with BMW club first would be in order and then you can decide how best to move forward.

Whatever you decide, I will support it and I am sure most of the Porsche club will as well.

Feel free to contact me directly.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. Appreciate your willingness to help. I will research the Tire Rack program and see what I can come up with on that end. Looks like the last one was back in April, and one coming up in Dec. at Fontana. Would like to see if I can get it closer to home though.

[MikeD]

I received this from Ford recently. You may want to contact them. https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/

I have a PDF about their program, but can' t figure out how to post it here.

Thanks Gordon, I will look into it.

[Mmagus]

Its strange that this should come up. I plan on attending the board meeting next week because I have specific questions about the regulations and permission needed to bring youth to our AX or driving events (not as drivers). While I am not a driving instructor, being new to the PCA, as a professional minister for 26 years dealing mainly with youth, I am well versed on "how to choose the best line for the fastest time" when working with them. If there is any way that I can assist please let me know. A possible area that pops to mind is the "reality check, this is your life" kind of talk.

Mark

[Curt Yaws]

Mike:

I think you are on to a great idea for a service to the kids in your church and community. I'm all in for helping, so put me on your list of instructors.

Curt

[ronaldtrotter]

I am willing to help in anyway I can. So put me down to help. To many parents just give there children the keys after a few months of driving to the store and 3 hours with a poor driving instructor. Why not just give them a loaded revolver and ask them to play Russian Roulette. I think an appropriate car control course should be required before anyone gets to drive.

[ttweed]

I received this from Ford recently. You may want to contact them. https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/
I have a PDF about their program, but can' t figure out how to post it here.

There are a couple of PDFs I found on that site, Gordon. Are either of these the ones you meant?
https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/pdf/dsfl_bestpracticesguide.pdf
https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/images/stories/leader%5B1%5D.pdf

There was an article in the paper on Saturday about these recent fatal accidents, and the main thrust of the piece was that (beside the involvement of alcohol) the state laws regarding provisional licenses for teen drivers are being ignored by parents and not enforced by the police:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/oct/29/enforcement-limited-teen-driving-laws/

I am wondering if "car control" is really the biggest issue involved in these tragedies? I think reckless and distracted driving is more at fault, myself. These folks at "Impact Teen Drivers" are probably the heaviest advocates in the state regarding this issue:
http://www.impactteendrivers.org/our-story
There are lots of resources available through them here:
http://www.impactteendrivers.org/resource
If the club is going to contemplate doing something about this problem, coordinating with them might not be a bad idea.

TT