sf.in.sd wrote:Nice article, and nice job driving a fast car fast yesterday Alain!
Shawn
GT3 wrote:Well since we seem the link the Road&Track articles here is another good one to read: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... our-nanny/
The truth, contrary to what you've heard (or read in a car magazine), is that a flashing stability-control light usually signals the hard work of a car's development engineers reacting to your incompetence.
Jad wrote:No one is saying the modern nannies are not absolutely amazing drivers. My point all along has been that the nannies are the great driver, and the person behind the wheel isn't the one driving the car. That is OK as long as they are in a car with great nannies, but I worry about the consequences of the driver thinking they know what they are doing and getting into a car without the nannies and learning the hard way how much the nannies were doing.
It is very frustrating as an instructor. If student gets on the gas way too early, the only consequence is the student smoothly pulls out of the corner complaining the stupid car is holding him back. They go into a corner too fast and brake hard, the car adjusts the shocks and brakes individual wheels and it turns right down to the apex where the steering wheel is pointed. There are no consequences to doing it wrong, so it is impossible to get the feel for doing it right. All methods work and produce similar results as the nannies are so good.
Turn off all the nannies as much as Porsche allows and still get a good time, means you are driving, doing it with the nannies on means THE NANNIES are driving and the driver is often not aware of it. It is VERY VERY hard to drive a modern GT car fast and turning off the nannies should only be done in a very controlled environment as the car will spin hard, fast and often without them.
Jad wrote:No one is saying the modern nannies are not absolutely amazing drivers. My point all along has been that the nannies are the great driver, and the person behind the wheel isn't the one driving the car. That is OK as long as they are in a car with great nannies, but I worry about the consequences of the driver thinking they know what they are doing and getting into a car without the nannies and learning the hard way how much the nannies were doing.
It is very frustrating as an instructor. If student gets on the gas way too early, the only consequence is the student smoothly pulls out of the corner complaining the stupid car is holding him back. They go into a corner too fast and brake hard, the car adjusts the shocks and brakes individual wheels and it turns right down to the apex where the steering wheel is pointed. There are no consequences to doing it wrong, so it is impossible to get the feel for doing it right. All methods work and produce similar results as the nannies are so good.
Turn off all the nannies as much as Porsche allows and still get a good time, means you are driving, doing it with the nannies on means THE NANNIES are driving and the driver is often not aware of it. It is VERY VERY hard to drive a modern GT car fast and turning off the nannies should only be done in a very controlled environment as the car will spin hard, fast and often without them.
GT3 wrote:
Well Jad, this is were we can agree to disagree.
To assume all GT drivers are the same and would have no idea how to drive a slower car with no modern electronics (Won't call them nannies anymore) is kind of naive, and when you make comments like "the one behind the wheel isn't driving" is border line insulting, even though I know personally you are not trying to be.
Our cars also weigh more, and are longer then cars like yours so they are not SO easy to drive as one would assume or at least drive fast.
I can promise you that I can personally get in a slower car with no modern electronics on and do just fine because of other experience I have like go kart racing and hours on top of hours of simulation racing.
I can promise you if I am not smooth with my inputs on cars like a SR8, or a Skip Barber on the simulator I will spin out on the first turn, and I take what I learn to my GT car.
I also had the pleasure of driving an SR4 and Spring Mtn and had no spin outs at all.
As the article says, you can use these lights as tools to help become a better driver by noticing when they are coming on and trying to figure out what you did wrong to make them come on and correct it, which is a lot better then the alternative which is going off track and causing damage to the car.
And please please please stop comparing cars computers from 14+ years ago from the ones of today, my cell phone in my pocket has more and better computing power then those cars had and they will continue to get better on these GT cars, but I can also promise you that the programming is not the same on a GT car then all the others for the simple reason is they know we are tracking these cars so they make them more forgiving, or should I say allowing then others.
If I get on the gas to early on a car like mine and try to hold that through the turn, even the electronics won't stop me from going off track on the other end, on a older car with older technology, maybe because of how invasive they can be.
If you are frustrated with instructing a person in a GT car, then maybe people should learn the car better because they are not going away any time soon.
Watch the dash for the TC or ESC light blinking on those trouble corners and then explain why the loss of power and help them correct it rather then banging you head.
With all these new GT cars coming into the club if you are an instructor you become someone limited with your training because you don’t really know the car you are in and what 10/10 really is or maybe trying to teach the line of a 1981 Porsche which is not the line for a modern 991+ GT car.
Just like any teacher if you want to stay with the times, you have to keep up to date with the all new cars and the technology it comes with.
Not saying that is an easy thing to do due to various reasons, but the GT car drivers of today will be the instructors of tomorrow.
Dan Andrews brings up some very good points and I totally get what he is saying in a whole different way being a GT car driver.
Yes, Dan C is an awesome instructor, and I had the pleasure of being his student last year at Buttonwillow, it was my first time there so I was very happy to have a second set of eyes.
Ironically though my times became much faster once he got out of the car, 9 seconds faster to be exact.
Not saying he didn’t do a good job, but there is that argument if I had an instructor that knew my GT car better from experience, then I would have been able to learn a little more. (I still love you Dan)
This thread will never end... God save us all please from this madness!
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