Pahrump

[MikeD]

Just a couple of observations...

I find it interesting that the same posters who are moaning about low HP cars in this thread were the exact same posters who were attempting to convince us that the 944 is the best car ever just a few threads ago.

I suppose F. Porsche could have complained about his low HP 356. But he didn't an beat a lot of higher HP cars by learning how to drive it better. Guess that lesson has been lost through the ages.

[Dan Chambers]

Guess that lesson has been lost through the ages.

Stirring the pot, there, Mikey-boy? Maybe you should ride shotgun in a 944 on the big tracks. That may be a lesson for ....err....someone.

Another thought: it's easy for a guy who's never owned a lower-HP Porsche to say "quit yer belly-achin' and learn to drive" just as easy as it is for a lower HP Porsche owner to say "you higher HP guys have the advantage." I guess that's why we have cars grouped in different classes. When the fat gets boiled down, it's where you, as a driver, stand in your own car class. The "lessons" are reflected in the standings.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Dan,
Try a 1.7L 914 if you want to know about low HP cars! Then you can really talk.

As for your underdog 944 times, ask Timmy what kind of times he runs at Big Willow. I can't remember what he ran last time out but I remember being quite impresssed.

[mfoley]

Dan,

If you want to make the front straight, and turns 1 & 2 at Fontana more fun, try running on the bumper of another spec car or in a 3 car train. Then time your pass when you get sucked up in their draft. When you've worked it all the way around through turn 2 and you're side by side going into 3 see who brakes latest. This should peak your interest again .

[Jad]

Just a couple of observations...

I find it interesting that the same posters who are moaning about low HP cars in this thread were the exact same posters who were attempting to convince us that the 944 is the best car ever just a few threads ago.

I suppose F. Porsche could have complained about his low HP 356. But he didn't an beat a lot of higher HP cars by learning how to drive it better. Guess that lesson has been lost through the ages.

The 944 is still better and tracks with curves are better than drag strips. The point of this portion of the thread is that going straight and pushing a pedal to the floor is no challenge no matter the HP, there is just a lot more time wasted going straight in a low HP car and more "straight" sections in low HP cars, doesn't mean one car is better or worse. My 13hp Kart was a blast at Moran, but would be boring at Big Willow. Throw in lots of corners and give me any car - high or low HP - and I am happy. If you want to go straight, buy American

[Dan Chambers]

"Dan,
Try a 1.7L 914 if you want to know about low HP cars! Then you can really talk.

As for your underdog 944 times, ask Timmy what kind of times he runs at Big Willow. I can't remember what he ran last time out but I remember being quite impresssed."

Steve, are you trying to pull my chain here? I agree a 1.7L 914 is a low HP car. Still a fun drive. We don't disagree there. As to Timmy's times: sure they're great. He's a GREAT driver, and his Spec cars...... Uhmmmm...... I believe ..... weigh a little less than a G-Stock or G-Prepared 944 ...... don't they? Maybe? So: Same 944 HP with a little less weight (to the tune of about 700 to 900 Lbs. if you include our driver weights ... and yes, I am a lard-a$$) = better big-track times? Uh ....geee.... maybe?:roll: Really, Steve.......Spec Car to G-class 944 .... Apples to Oranges.

I agree, with a seriously set-up 944, like a Spec Car, the whole argument about low HP and big track time changes. You know better than I that a 944 Spec Car drives far differently than a stock-weight, slightly-suspension-tuned 944. Our experience in the Spec Challange late last year bore that out. On the same track, on the same day, I drove the Spec Car 3.2 seconds faster than my own car on a one-mile track....losing to you by only .95 seconds (OUCH! I gotta diet, and learn to drive!). Imagine if that were at a Big Willow or Cal. Speedway track? I'm sure I'd see more than a 3-second difference in my times between the two types of cars.

"Dan,

If you want to make the front straight, and turns 1 & 2 at Fontana more fun, try running on the bumper of another spec car or in a 3 car train. Then time your pass when you get sucked up in their draft. When you've worked it all the way around through turn 2 and you're side by side going into 3 see who brakes latest. This should peak your interest again."

Mark: NOW you're talkin'! When Ralph, Martha, Jerry Mize and I drove an event at Cal. Speedway in the same run group, we had a blast! Essentially, equal cars and drivers. We played cat-and-mouse for 2 to 4 sessions. No one ever got more than a couple hundred yards away from the others for 20-minute sessions. It was BEEEE-YOOOO-TEEEE-FUUUL! I can see why you guys have so much fun in Spec Racing.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Jad,
I actually prefer straights that appear to be turns, Like the slalom between star mazda and sunset at BW and riverside, and turn 8 (WSIR)

Now that's fun!

[Steve Grosekemper]

Jad,
I actually prefer straights that appear to be turns, Like the slalom between star mazda and sunset at BW and riverside, and turn 8 (WSIR)

Now that's fun!

Dan,
Of course I am pulling your chain, It's the forum! Where have you been? I am just sorry we haven't heard from Dan A. or Curt...

[gulf911]

Dan,

If you want to make the front straight, and turns 1 & 2 at Fontana more fun, try running on the bumper of another spec car or in a 3 car train. Then time your pass when you get sucked up in their draft. When you've worked it all the way around through turn 2 and you're side by side going into 3 see who brakes latest. This should peak your interest again .

Thanks mfoley, you beat me to it!

Going around a big track by yourself in a slow car isn't very exciting, however whe running with a group or even 1 other car in your class it makes all the difference.

Thanks Mike D, I was thinking the same thing...

And Jad if you think removing 8 & 9 at willow makes the track boring you need to ride with someone who knows the track well, Cort Wagner comes to mind. How fast are you going into 1? If its boring you're not going fast enough...

[MikeD]

Couple of additional thoughts....

* What's that age old quote? Something like... "If you win it's your car, if I win it's the driver!"

* Compared to a 944 I have a high HP car. Compared to a GT3 I have a low HP car. Compared to a 1948 356 you have more than enough HP. It's all relative Danno.

if you don't think I have to drive my car like you drive yours just take a quick look at where I am in POC. It would be like you in your 944 competing against me in MP. Come find me some time and we'll talk about how my "high hp car" stacks up against cars IN MY CLASS.

* If you are not going fast enough in T1 ant T2 and CS you did not do the 16-21 combo correctly. Try it again.

For an entire weekend the best I could get in T1 and T2 was 135-140. Try as I might to do better that was it. Come onto the front straight put the pedal down. Turn in at the optimal point, suck it up, and that's it. Less than a month later, with no changes to the car I was doing 150-155. How is this possible?

[Jad]

Dan,

And Jad if you think removing 8 & 9 at willow makes the track boring you need to ride with someone who knows the track well, Cort Wagner comes to mind. How fast are you going into 1? If its boring you're not going fast enough...

OK, please arrange this

[MikeD]

If its boring you're not going fast enough...

My thoughts EXACTLY!

[Jad]

To add to the HP battle, the last time I was at SOW, about a month ago, running the same config we ran in January, I would have had the 4th top time of day ahead of Kary, it was the first time I had driven the bowl and I only had ~30 hp. Would have been faster, but the temps were around 118 degrees which really sucked the power... and yes, the straight was still boring, but was a little cooler which was nice It was a LOT of fun, but my top speed was very low, I just kept speed up in the corners a lot more than any of you, so again, turns fun, straights boring.....

Yes, it was in a kart, non-shifter, in case you haven't figured it out, a shifter would have been easy ttod and still slow at the end of the straight

[Dan Chambers]

Couple of additional thoughts....

* What's that age old quote? Something like... "If you win it's your car, if I win it's the driver!"

* Compared to a 944 I have a high HP car. Compared to a GT3 I have a low HP car. Compared to a 1948 356 you have more than enough HP. It's all relative Danno.

if you don't think I have to drive my car like you drive yours just take a quick look at where I am in POC. It would be like you in your 944 competing against me in MP. Come find me some time and we'll talk about how my "high hp car" stacks up against cars IN MY CLASS.

* If you are not going fast enough in T1 ant T2 and CS you did not do the 16-21 combo correctly. Try it again.

For an entire weekend the best I could get in T1 and T2 was 135-140. Try as I might to do better that was it. Come onto the front straight put the pedal down. Turn in at the optimal point, suck it up, and that's it. Less than a month later, with no changes to the car I was doing 150-155. How is this possible?

Mike: we totally agree. It's all relative. You're faster than I am, and I'm faster than a 1948 356. It's all relative. As to you stacking up in POC, agreed. Skill does account for a lot. No doubt.

As to Cal. Speedway, I shaved a few 10ths off my time by exiting the infield on to the straights differently, and cleaning up the infield chicanes and dog-leg 180. However, my max speed in to turn 1 was still no greater than 115 MPH off the straights, and my exit speed out of turn 2 was still no greater than 112 MPH. Once on the straights and turns 1 and 2, it's HP, wind-drag, and point-byes in a 944. Now, reduce weight, add HP (I'm thinking 944-TURBO), and get grouped in a class where you're not constantly changing your line to accommidate point-bye's, and your times will undoubtedly improve.

Which takes us all the way back to my point about big tracks: "High Speed/Big Straights" tracks in a G-class 944 is a snooze. Technical tracks, with challanging turns and elevation change is a blast. Given the choices, I'll take the tech-stuff. If it's going to be a "Fast-Track" configuration, I'll save my Pesos for the "Tech" tracks.

Jack, are you listenin'?

[JHPGT3]

For an entire weekend the best I could get in T1 and T2 was 135-140. Try as I might to do better that was it. Come onto the front straight put the pedal down. Turn in at the optimal point, suck it up, and that's it. Less than a month later, with no changes to the car I was doing 150-155. How is this possible?

Mikey, to answer your question, I don't think it is possible!!! At the POC Tribute to which you refer, You did a 1:55. I did a 1:52. I honestly never did more than 130 in T1 and T2 (lost my cajones with Kary a year earlier ). If you were doing 155 and I was doing 130, I musta lost several seconds (let's say 3) to you on that section of track (you could calculate this to an actual number based on the length of that section). Then, how did I make up 6 seconds on the other sections of track? You might have seen 150-155 for a flash of a second but I doubt it was for very long.