Auto-x Series Horror Story

[ttweed]

OK, I hate to be a wet blanket, but we haven't talked about this on the forum in awhile. What are we going to do when we lose Qualcomm?

Randy Chase, from the one of the SCCA autox clubs (and also the ChaseCam guy,) posted this message recently on one of their forums:

It was reported tonight on Monday Night Football, that the Chargers are now leaning on leaving as soon as they can, which is January 2007. Most likely to Anaheim or somewhere in Orange County.

Not to yell that the sky is falling, I am just hoping that there is some sense of urgency.

January 2007 is only just over 14 months away. Remember, the official word from the Stadium Authority and the city, is that with the Chargers gone, the stadium is also gone and the land will be sold/developed.

I have been saying this for *years* now, trying to not appear alarmist. But I also know it is really easy in an all volunteer organization for nobody to really step forward and raise the flag, saying we have a problem. It is safer and easier to just ignore it. But when should we get worried? How soon before we lose the lot should we panic? Or do we all just shrug and go find other hobbies?

I am really concerned about this, myself. If such a change takes place, we may be entering our last season for autox and DE at the Q. When SDR hosts the Parade Autocross in 2007, will we be holding it at Fontana?

TT

[Dan Chambers]

Tom:

Unfortunately, time, population expansion, and the need for more taxation of property spells the end of Qualcomm and it's parking lot as we've known it.

The housing market is still hammered by the need for more houses (not buyers). The population in Southern California isn't showing any signs of diminishing in the next 20 years - (regardless of where the inbound people come from: in state, out of state, or out of country). And the City of San Diego is looking for every revenue generating source it can find to get itsself out of it's fiscal problems. This all points to 160 central city/valley acres of prime development land we call "the parking lot." Truly, it was just going to be a matter of time before all that pavement owned by the city (and un-taxable) became private, taxable, property/housing/mixed zone land. Look at the rest of "Missing Valley" to determine the future of Qualcomm's land use. All the gravel works in Mission Valley have "sunseted" and have become condo's (best way to double and triple tax the same acreage) and mixed-use-zoned lands (sales tax from retail + property tax from condo's .... double tax whammy!)

I've seen the 10-million dollar development plans - affectionately named "Village in the Valley" - and am aware of a couple of other proposed housing developement plans that have been submitted to the San Diego Planning Board. The local develoers are wringing their hands in much the same way they did when NTC closed a couple years back. Do you think good ol' Corkey McM. and his buddies (Field Stone, Lennar, etc) are done with San Diego County? FAT chance. Mission Valley is a huge pot of honey to these bees!

Options for driving events are:

New spots of open pavement ..... (we've been looking for years); less events per year .... (most likely outside San Diego County); and a diminished overall A-X program for PCA-SDR .... (unless we can either find new asphalt, or hope someone builds a racetrack in San Diego County).

I have a couple of leads for new "local" locations inside SD County. I'm not sure if they'll pan out. Calls have been made. I am optomistic. San Diego Region has a lot of innovative thinkers. I'm confident we'll come up with something.

For now: Take pictures/drive every event / savor the moments at Qualcomm; for they, too, shall someday pass. Just look to the surf spot "Killer Dana" in the 60's. Where is it now?

Courage!

[harnishclan]

Seems to me like we would loose the parking lot regardless of what the Chargers do. If they leave, plan A takes effect and there are a bunch of condos, townhouses, and another shopping center. If they stay, a big part of plan B is to convert 60 acres of the parking lot into condos. And there is no plan C at this point! We just have to get creative and find another spot. For example, what about the old parade ground at NTC? Or maybe a section of a mall parking lot. Track size would have to be reduced, but it's been done before. Plus, the upside is we could move our venues around the county for some variation.

[Jad]

Can the Boxsters and 944's race at Del Mar? The loud 911's might be a problem, but could the quiet cars race there?

[MikeD]

Can the Boxsters and 944's race at Del Mar? The loud 911's might be a problem, but could the quiet cars race there?

Do you mean in the parking lot? Do you really think it would be less than the 92db at the Q?

[MikeD]

Tom, is there anyone in PCA SDR that is on the committee to find/create alternatives to this problem? I would expect that all the car clubs in S.D. have created a committee to solve this problem. Between PCA, SCCA, FOC, BMWCCA, add nauseam, I would expect there would be enough money, clout, etc to get something done.

In essence, where do we send our ideas for a solution?

[Jad]

Can the Boxsters and 944's race at Del Mar? The loud 911's might be a problem, but could the quiet cars race there?

Do you mean in the parking lot? Do you really think it would be less than the 92db at the Q?

I have not been involved in any of the discussions, but for selfish reasons, I have always wanted ax's there. When I asked, I was told either it was too expensive a long time ago when that was a problem, but more recently, that we would be too loud and the neighbors would complain. Sometime in like the 80's, apparently there were noise readings taken on a foggy day with just the wrong wind etc and the readings were too high and therefore we can't use the facilities.

I do know that between the fair and the horse races there may not be that many days available, but the motorhomes have their sales there 2-3 times a year....so maybe

The lot is plenty big, though very slick - not that I have ever done any suspension testing there

[Carl Scragg]

A couple of years back, when Dan, Gary and I were AX chairs, we looked for potential venues. Del Mar was expensive, and unavailable the months of June, July, August, September, but could be a possibility. Del Mar might also be an acceptable venue for the Performance Driving School. We also looked at the NTC parade grounds (small), the water park at Coors Amphitheater (very small), El Toro Marine Base (too much political confusion), and CA Speedway (90 miles away). Since the info in not current, it should be rechecked, but maybe this can get us started.

[TheStig]

I know EXACTLY where to build a race track in San Diego!!!

First off, there are off-road events with trophy trucks in the hills off of Olympic Parkway in Eastlake. I have driven through the Otay and Jamul areas many times and remember a very nice stretch of land right off of highway 94. It's un-developed and at least 20 acres!

Damnit....now....where to get a building permit and $$$ for it..

[kary]

Can the Boxsters and 944's race at Del Mar? The loud 911's might be a problem, but could the quiet cars race there?

Do you mean in the parking lot? Do you really think it would be less than the 92db at the Q?

I have not been involved in any of the discussions, but for selfish reasons, I have always wanted ax's there. When I asked, I was told either it was too expensive a long time ago when that was a problem, but more recently, that we would be too loud and the neighbors would complain. Sometime in like the 80's, apparently there were noise readings taken on a foggy day with just the wrong wind etc and the readings were too high and therefore we can't use the facilities.

I do know that between the fair and the horse races there may not be that many days available, but the motorhomes have their sales there 2-3 times a year....so maybe

The lot is plenty big, though very slick - not that I have ever done any suspension testing there

I wonder if anyone ever took noise readings when they run those big trucks in that small stadium in Del Mar?. I can hear them at my house in Cardiff ever day and evening when they run them. I cannot image an auto-x would generate anything like that noise, but then, we are not making them enough money as compared to the large events they hold, are we?

[Carl Scragg]

I've heard the story that both Buttonwillow and Thunderhill were built with private funding put together by amateur sports car clubs. Can anyone verify this? Does anyone know how we might learn more about how it was done and how much it cost? If the clubs in LA and Northern CA can put together the funding, couldn't the San Diego clubs do something similar?

[MikeD]

Carl, I know BWRP is owned by Cal. Club (A Region of SCCA). Not sure about Thunderhill. I have been thinking the exact same thing, just don't know how to put something like that together. Should PCA take the lead in putting something like that together? I'd be more than happy to volunteer as much time as I can to such an effort.

I think there are pleanty of places in S.D. county that have natural sound barriers, which can be enhanced. TheStig mentioned one (although, I think a track would need more than 20 acres). There's also the are north of the 56, west of Mast Blvd. and the Santee Land Fill, and South East of Camp Elliot. I'm sure there's something up with the land though, otherwise there would be houses there .

We should move the entire San Diego population into highrise condos downtown and use the rest of the land for one huge race track/off road park .

[ttweed]

Tom, is there anyone in PCA SDR that is on the committee to find/create alternatives to this problem? I would expect that all the car clubs in S.D. have created a committee to solve this problem.

No, Mike, AFAIK, there is no coalition of the various car clubs to express a united front in this matter, or to pool resources for a solution. There really needs to be a "Motorsports Council of Clubs" or something, with reps from all the various entities concerned, to carry this forward and coordinate an effort. The prospect is daunting and solutions are incredibly expensive to contemplate.

Yes, Cal Club built Buttonwillow, and the SF Region SCCA did the same for Thunderhill. There were financial backers who put up the $$$ and they are still being paid off out of track proceeds. Both facilities are out in the boondocks, where land is relatively cheap. I don't see any opportunity for this in San Diego anymore, with land costs being what they are, without government help (such as leased city/county land, etc.) San Diego is in such a political/financial mess at the moment, that this is not going to happen. Environmental concerns will squelch anything in the suburbs.

The last rumors of a motorsports facility here revolved around Roger Penske, Ralph Rubio, and the old dump site north of I-52. AFAIK, that was shot down by the Marine Corps Air Base at Miramar. The indian reservations seem to be the most likely partners in such an endeavor to me, at this point, and they aren't likely to be too thrilled with the idea either. I have heard rumors of a facility in Borrego, but I believe it will be private, much like AMP.

I don't have any answers, I am just afraid of what the future holds. It looks to me like indoor karting may be the only thing left in San Diego after awhile.

And yes, Dan, I remember Killer Dana. It was gone before most surfers even knew anything was happening. I also remember the coalition of surfing clubs which formed in the 60s to fight surfing bans on local beaches and resulted in the establishment of Tourmaline Surfing Park, the first such facility in the county. United we stand, divided we fall.

TT

[RickK]

How about Holtville? If funds were going to be raised and something built like a BW model then that seems like a good target location.

Does anyone have statistics on how Qualcomm usage for car events? I mean things like how much it costs for a day, how many days a year is used, how many different clubs using it?

[Carl Scragg]

Rick,

The cost of renting Qualcomm is $1500/day for a not-for profit organization such as PCA (West lot, SE lot, NE lot, all the same price). I just looked at the 2005 schedule on their website and estimate that there are 5-10 autoclub events each month at Qualcomm. For-profit groups pay more for the stadium lots and get first choice on dates -- thus limiting availability to the car clubs. I'd guess that usage by car clubs might be towards the 10 events/month with more availability.