TRASH TALK

[LUCKY DAVE]

More ax's are better, every other week all year if possible. Well almost....
Our club seems to make plenty of money off the driving events, how about we raffle off a new GT3 each year? Only instructors that corner work are allowed to enter the raffle....
I bet there would be no shortage of willing instructors at every event, no matter how many there are.
Seriously, it's a club event, we all have to do our part. My part is to run over cones.

[kary]

Ok, since we don't want to waste Ted's post here, I've got a trash talk subject. Since the club's instructors will be fairly busy instructing 3 of the 4 weekends this month; DE school, PDS and AX here's a question that I pose to existing instructors. What would motivate you to continue to instruct in our club, beside the obvious (helping others, giving back to the club, etc.). The recent "carrot" of a set of tires to one of the DE instructors is great. I realize we can't do that all the time. What about maybe only instructing 2 or 3 AXs then getting one off (just driving)? Or maybe a monetary discount at AXs? Just throwing it out there to hear your opinions. Inquiring minds want to know.

This is an interesting question Jackie and after reading the numerous posts here I have the following thoughts:

1. This is a volunteer organization. Once you begin the differentiate one member from another the "volunteerism" will decrease. It is human nature as people will stop working because they do not feel that others should have privileges.
2. Auto-x is largely about training new drivers. Corner working is part of that learning experience and helps new drivers see things that they would not otherwise see from in the car. This should remain in some capacity (see my comment below on this).
3. Set up and clean up of the track is a laborious job that no one likes to do. It must be done otherwise the event does not come off. There are solutions to this as well if the current participating club members are lazy. (see below)

So, my suggestion. Do not favor certain people that do more. This happens in everyday life and will never change, there is only a down side to favoritism. You could hire corner workers to handle the entire day like big tracks. You can have students go out there and watch in the same capacity with their instructors or not. Next, set up and clean up can be done the same as well. People sign up for this duty and they are paid, not given a free event, but paid. This eliminates the human issues.

So how do you pay for this? You simply raise the entry fee, it is already quite inexpensive and by doing the suggested changes you would create a much more enjoyable event for everyone. There would no longer be all this belly aching and complaints that we cannot get enough help to run the events. You might also decrease the demand making the event more enjoyable also while still creating the same revenue level.

All that said, I may have broken my first rule above, not the favoritism because that does not exist in my proposal, but the volunteerism might decrease because people are paying for things they do not want to do. This could lead to everyone wanting to pay for the work rather than pitch in and get it done. Again, it is a volunteer organziation....

[Dan Chambers]

My point was, how do we keep the good instructors we have while infusing the club with new instructors? In my view, a lot of the good instructors instruct every single AX, help with the trailer and usually corner work. I hate to loose these good people and I see a trend so I thought I'd try to nip it if at all possible. Let's keep the thread alive until we get a solution to take to the Board.

Thanks for reeling back this thread.

IMHO: one way to keep the "good" folks around and encourage newer members to jump in and get involved is to continually recognize the great amount of effort the Instructors/event volunteers make to allow us to have the fun we have.

Many of the Instructors I've had in the past have been selfless, hard-working volunteers that have given much time and effort to improving my experience. In all the excitement, it is not difficult to forget just how hard the Instructors work, all day long. If you look at the volunteers that help in many areas of the AX experience (Equipment, Tech Inspection, Registration, Track-layout, AX Chairs, Corner-Worker Chairs, Track Break-down and trailer loading) ... they are also Instructors. A list of who's who on the Board of Directors present and past shows many Board members and Officers are Instructors. The Instructors are some of the hardest-working individuals in the club.

It is my personal opinion that PCA Instructors are:

1) Ambassadors of the Region, and the event. They are some of the "first people" a new driver/member works with
2) 1st line as safety monitors both in and out of the cars
3) Mentors of a philosphy of driving and overall behavior at events
4) Exemplary drivers and competitors with good-sportsmanship as a fundamental tool for winning and having a good time
5) Exceptionally hard working individuals who want to both drive, and make sure the event goes on as smoothly as possible
6) Human beings who value the praise and thanks they justly deserve

IMHO Instructors are not elitists, as has been implied in other threads. They are actually some of the more humble and self-effacing people in the club. To be a member of the Corps of Instructors should be, and is, an honored position.

IMHO you cannot give the Instructors enough recognition, credit or thanks. A little respect and recognition goes a long way. They deserve far more than they often get. Instructors are the heart and soul of the PCA and are the reason the PCA is as great as it is. Next time you're in Tech Inspection, or setting the track, or registering, or even corner-working, give a friendly "thanks!" to the Volunteer/Instructor helping to make your day go well. They've earned it.

Just my soap-box ranting. Other opinions may vary.

See you at the track.

[mrondeau]

IMHO you cannot give the Instructors enough recognition, credit or thanks. A little respect and recognition goes a long way. They deserve far more than they often get. Instructors are the heart and soul of the PCA and are the reason the PCA is as great as it is. Next time you're in Tech Inspection, or setting the track, or registering, or even corner-working, give a friendly "thanks!" to the Volunteer/Instructor helping to make your day go well. They've earned it.

I agree completely. Overall, I have found that the instructors make up a large part of the core of the "drivers" group that contributes so much to this club in terms of time and effort. As a "newbie" to competetive driving (autocrossing) I have had nothing but good experinces with the instructors I've had. My thanks to all the instructors as well as the dozens of volunteers who help out with every event. IMHO this club can only survive with volunteers and will cease to exist if participants look for a way to avoid doing any "work". If you expect to play, you should plan on putting in a little teamwork so that we can continue to have these great events.

[ttweed]

If you expect to play, you should plan on putting in a little teamwork so that we can continue to have these great events.

That is the bottom line, here, I think. Everybody needs to "hold up their piece of the sky," as my wife is fond of saying.

As far as the paid-cornerworkers-for-AX-events issue goes, all I can say is:



TT

[Kim Crosser]

Tom - thanks! That picture captures my feelings about paid corner workers exactly!

[GT3Girl]

Less autocrosses... hmm... Doesn't sound fun to me. It will only cause me to go run events elsewhere and look for other organizations that provide TRACK TIME (like this past weekend).

I think the answer is pretty simple. If instructors feel "burnt out" then don't sign up to instruct at the next event. If driver's feel "burn out" (too many ax in one month) then don't go.

Maybe someday I will feel burnt out, but truth be known? I can't get enough of the track. And I hope to lobby for some track time sponsored by PCA SDR at Streets of Willow (like Orange Coast AND Grand Prix region pulled it off nicely this year.....) OR.... the infield at California Speedway.

However, the last thing I would want as a "student" is to have an instructor who is burnt out or would rather be getting ready to go out on his or her time. It's already an intimidating situation as it is...

I've learned something from every instructor that I've had this year. My only suggestion would be that there be SOMETHING given to an "INSTRUCTOR OF THE YEAR AWARD".

Jackie posed a great question. Along with hers, I am asking what should we do to keep the first-timers coming back? Believe you me, that "first" experience can be a "deal breaker" for people returning back to autocross.

The autocross people (registration, timing, corner chairs, cdi's etc..) ran this part of motorsports with PCA SDR in an absolutely superb way this year. People DO put in so much of their time and effort. You all made it so that no matter who I meet, I talk about this event and how organized and fun it is.

A BIG THANKS TO those who instructed ME this year. Without the instructors, there's no way I would ever have attempted OR returned to this fun event.

Sheila

[jenniferreinhardt]

Yes, the track events already operate very well. But, we can always try new ways to improve the experience. I like the gift idea for Instructor of the year.

I am asking what should we do to keep the first-timers coming back?

When Jackie and I register new people, we have made it the #1 importance to answer their questions quickly and make them feel welcome and part of the club right at the beginning. Then at the track, the rest of you have done the same. This is what brings people back as proven by Sheila’s big up and the success we have had this year. I have wondered if when some people have not shown up for a while, would it be a good idea to personally call them up and invite them back? Any Volunteers? Sheila, I know you would be great at this!

However, the last thing I would want as a "student" is to have an instructor who is burnt out or would rather be getting ready to go out on his or her time. It's already an intimidating situation as it is...

I don’t believe any of our present Instructors would ever convey any frustration to their Students. They are just too nice and professional to do that!

I think the answer is pretty simple. If instructors feel "burnt out" then don't sign up to instruct at the next event. If driver's feel "burn out" (too many ax in one month) then don't go.

Not instructing is most often not an option when we have a lot of students - which is most of the time. The core Instructors instruct at each event. I am just stating the fact that, because I am not instructing, working in the trailer or on other AX jobs, I have noticed how many Instructors would like to have more time during the AX for their own driving improvement and cars at the track. I often see them run to their Student’s car after they have finished their own run session. No time for contemplating their performance or checking their cars while the tires are still hot. (INSTRUCTORS, please correct me if I am mistaken!)

As far as skipping an event, no Instructor/Driver, who drives for points and wants to win his/hers class that year, will skip an event - I just don’t see that as an option for these people. So, I want to limit frustrations by all our track volunteers, and along with everyone else, am listening to the responses. Plus, as a 2008 liaison to Registration and Timing, I want to make sure my Volunteer team is kept happy.

Keep the ideas coming!

Lastly, do we have a Poll feature on this forum? Do you also think this may be a good way to get an idea of how Members, Volunteers and Drivers feel, and what they would like to add or improve?

[gulf911]

Not instructing is most often not an option when we have a lot of students - which is most of the time. The core Instructors instruct at each event. I am just stating the fact that, because I am not instructing, working in the trailer or on other AX jobs, I have noticed how many Instructors would like to have more time during the AX for their own driving improvement and cars at the track. I often see them run to their Student’s car after they have finished their own run session. No time for contemplating their performance or checking their cars while the tires are still hot. (INSTRUCTORS, please correct me if I am mistaken!)

You are not mistaken. An I will not beat a dead horse but the corner worker issue would help in that manner. What suprises me is as soon as its brought up, you are either lazy, don't want to help, or are an elitist. Seems they all have missed the fact the instructor is volunteering their time as well.

[chris914]

How about extra practice laps for instructors?

[Tim Comeau]

Kary,
Great points.
--------------
Our autocrosses are all about 2 things.
1. Competition
2. Growing drivers.
This second component is where part of your solution will come from. Growing drivers leads to them becoming instructors, which we do nicely with several events, programs, etc.
Obviously, having more instructors means less work for those same instructors. If you're burned out instructing, ask to sit a few events out. It's ok. Someone else can fill in. If not, it's not the end of the world is it? Can the event continue? I think so.

[Tim Comeau]

Chris,
Giving extra practice laps to some drivers would un-level the playing field.

[chris914]

And having a student in your car is a leveling one?

[Kim Crosser]

My $0.02 on the "instructor hops out and runs to the student's car" issue ---

This seems to be a real polarizing issue. Many instructors don't like this, while others (and students particularly) DO like to have the students drive immediately after the instructors drive.

Maybe we/you are placing too much emphasis on "keeping the track hot". You shouldn't feel pressured to jump out of your car and into the student's car. Taking an extra 5 minutes to check tire temps isn't going to bring the track to a standstill - there are many drivers who aren't students or instructors in any run group - they can get started and then the students can join a couple of minutes later (and run into the beginning of the next group). That wouldn't waste too much time.

Part of this is being organized and READY to go immediately at the start of the instructor group. If you are one of the first ones out in that group, you give yourself a little extra time at the end to do the switch. On the other hand, if you are the last one ready in the instructor group, well...

In the old scheme, the first group out was a student group, followed by the instructor group, then a long delay, then the student again. Students ALL said they preferred riding with the instructor first, then driving, as they could see the line better and got a feel for the track, rather than having "cone blindness" on the first lap. With the instructor/student groups back-to-back, the students have a chance to learn what they have been shown while it is fresh in their minds.

One "gotcha" in the whole scheme is that the student and instructor groups must be adjacent, or there will be times when the student is supposed to be corner working and the instructor driving, or vice versa. (Or, we will have to go "cold" for some switches.)

If anyone would like to come up with a different scheme, I will be happy to share the Excel spreadsheets I used to model and "what if" the different corner working arrangements. Under the set of criteria I used to model the sequences, there were only six patterns that met the requirements (which we use in sequence).

[Mike]

This is an interesting question Jackie and after reading the numerous posts here I have the following thoughts:

1. This is a volunteer organization. Once you begin the differentiate one member from another the "volunteerism" will decrease. It is human nature as people will stop working because they do not feel that others should have privileges.
2. Auto-x is largely about training new drivers. Corner working is part of that learning experience and helps new drivers see things that they would not otherwise see from in the car. This should remain in some capacity (see my comment below on this).
3. Set up and clean up of the track is a laborious job that no one likes to do. It must be done otherwise the event does not come off. There are solutions to this as well if the current participating club members are lazy. (see below)

So, my suggestion. Do not favor certain people that do more. This happens in everyday life and will never change, there is only a down side to favoritism. You could hire corner workers to handle the entire day like big tracks. You can have students go out there and watch in the same capacity with their instructors or not. Next, set up and clean up can be done the same as well. People sign up for this duty and they are paid, not given a free event, but paid. This eliminates the human issues.

So how do you pay for this? You simply raise the entry fee, it is already quite inexpensive and by doing the suggested changes you would create a much more enjoyable event for everyone. There would no longer be all this belly aching and complaints that we cannot get enough help to run the events. You might also decrease the demand making the event more enjoyable also while still creating the same revenue level.

All that said, I may have broken my first rule above, not the favoritism because that does not exist in my proposal, but the volunteerism might decrease because people are paying for things they do not want to do. This could lead to everyone wanting to pay for the work rather than pitch in and get it done. Again, it is a volunteer organziation....

Kary nice comments.
Why not try it?
It might require the AX cash cow return 10% less profits to the club?
All the extra AX volunteering that AX racers do that can be replaced by min wage workers helps make for bigger AX event profits.
These profits help support non track events.
So if you are a track guy only get out and get a better return on your hard AX work and enjoy some of the fun non track events you indirectly support.

Just a thought.....

All this talk about getting new prospects but little discussion on retaining our more qualified volunteers.

Volunteers come and go, we cycle through starting with high enthusiam and typically the average volunteer steps off after a few years.
A volunteer with a few years of PCA experiance takes with them club knowledge and experiance that should not be overlooked.

I speak from experiance having been kicked to the curb as I left the timing trailer moments after announcing the Parade AX, guess that's what happens when you pick your friends by the car they drive.