Track time at the streets vs. cost

[MVZ944T]

I just noticed on the POC forum that the last STS event at the "Streets", all classes got an hour and twenty minutes track time (120 cars) . Earlier, there were some questions regarding cost of the PCA event vs. the POC event. Well, if the POC event got less than an hour and a half of track time over the weekend, and weather permitting we look to get get over 3 hours, the $275 does not seem like a bad deal to me . It is all about track time, is it not? Having said that, it would still be nice to see a bit better turn out.

See you all this weekend.

Mike VZ

[gulf911]

Sorry, but your fuzzy math doesn't add up. POC had a 2 day event, I am not absolutive positive, but even at 15 min sessions, and I believe they run 4 groups, that hour and a half was more than likely per day. So, then if we had more cars turn out the price would go down? Like I said before, the track doesn't charge by track time, and neither should we.

[paul-silver]

I've not participated in TT or DE in SDR, but if the tracks here are anything like back in Chicago, I assume it's a fixed charge per day.

So, the cost per person is based on the expected turn-out. If the average turn-out for these events would go up, I would guess that the price would come down. But as long as the average turn-out remains the same, so will the price.

You said it yourself, the POC turn-out was what, 120 cars? Divide the fixed cost of the track per day by 120, and then divide the same number by the PCA turn-out. I would guess the PCA turn-out cost per person comes out quite abit larger.

[mnettles]

POC had at least 5 run groups (per Laurie Taylor.... they may have had 6... I didn't attend). The announced the 1 hour 20 minutes of track time achievement and would have announced a larger number had it happened. The event was sold out at 121 drivers and was very full. According to all reports a good time was had by all.

mj

[gulf911]

Ok, good idea. Cost of the track is 2500/day weekends. I believe there are 45 cars, 2500/45 is $55.00/day or $110.00 per car for the weekend, for the track only. At 275.00/car that leaves $7425.00 for corner workers, ambulance and insurance for the weekend. Then there is an extra $20.00 transponder rental/car on top of that. Do the math on Pahrump TT and you find more of the same because there were over 50 cars there. At that rate shouldn't the transponder system be almost paid for? And if we are paying for the system by increased fees, why are the PCA members paying for it, having to rent the transponders on top of that? How about a 10.00 rental fee? I went through the same issue years ago with POC when I and lots of others complained about the price, they admittedly informed me that the STS events subsidized their Club racers. You know, the guys with the 100k+ cars. This will not be a popular view I am sure, but its my opinion the price is too high. If it wasn't you wouldn't annouce and almost 50% off discount to new TTers. How about a discount for PCA members, and leave the $275.00 rate for non members? Just a thought.

[gulf911]

Anyone?? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

[MVZ944T]

I was merely stating what was posted on the POC forum by the event organizer. No math involved on my part. So where is the happy face with the PHFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!? Damn, there isn't one!

[gulf911]

Thanks Mike, nothing against you of course.
At some point I would hope others will voice what I hear off the board. But, maybe fear it will fall on deaf ears? Obviously, the numbers show the price can be lowered and still make a tidy profit.


Thanks for listening....

[Dan Chambers]

Anyone?? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Dan A.:

I'm listening. I empathize with the cost issue of TT's. The #1 reason I only drove 1 away event all year, much to my personal frustration and angst, was time limitations and other commitments. The #2 reason....cost.

As this note is being written, I'm answering emails from 2004 and 2005 Board members and event Chairs discussing funding issues, event cost/fee ratios, budgets for 2005. I can't emphasize enough the need for everyone ... and I mean EVERYONE to communicate their interests and concerns to the Board members and the Chairs of the events so that the decisions that are made are not made with limited info and input, assumption, or hear-say. Please, in a constructive and informative way, communicate your interest and information to the Board members and Chairs of events via a quick email or phone call. Encourage your Chairs to go to the monthly Board meetings and report their event's situations, conditions and participant's interests and needs.

And I don't just mean, necessarily, TT/DE/AX drivers only. Social Event participants, Tours Participants, Concours particpants all need to communicate with the Board and Chairs so that we have a finger on the pulse of what the club wants.

I took on the job as Board member, A-X Chair, and for next year VP to facilitate the interests of the club members, and give something back to a club that has so enriched my life. (Personally, I dislike politics and just want to have fun.) I have chosen this role to better the events for everyone, so we can all help foster a sense of continued growth and comraderie for the San Diego Region. I can't do this in an information vacuum. None of us can. All the Chairs and Board members need your constructive and informative input. The more information/data we have, the better we can facilitate growth, change for the better, and a sense of improvement over time.

So, writing notes on the forum and sharing your frustration is great. Take a moment to 'cc' the Board or event Chairs so the message isn't stuck in one place (Board@pcasdr.org, TT@pcasdr.org, ax@pcasdr.org). [Note: Not all board members read the Forum.] Get involved with your event Chairs and strongly encourage them to represent your interests at all the Board meetings. Come to the monthly board meetings and share your knowledge and experience. Remember, we're all volunteers here. Board members, Chairs, events helpers are all vontunteers. The more we get input and help, the better the system for every member. Get involved, be positive, work with us. We all encourage this.

Thanks for your time.

[martinreinhardt]

Paid cornerworkers would be nice, I not sure why we don't have them at the AutoX events.

[MikeD]

So, writing notes on the forum and sharing your frustration is great. Take a moment to 'cc' the Board or event Chairs so the message isn't stuck in one place (Board@pcasdr.org, TT@pcasdr.org, ax@pcasdr.org). [Note: Not all board members read the Forum.] Get involved with your event Chairs and strongly encourage them to represent your interests at all the Board meetings. Come to the monthly board meetings and share your knowledge and experience. Remember, we're all volunteers here. Board members, Chairs, events helpers are all vontunteers. The more we get input and help, the better the system for every member. Get involved, be positive, work with us. We all encourage this.

Dan C.,

One of the reasons I put together a forum which requires members to login and identify themselves was to legitimize the information communicated to the Chairs and BoD on the forum. Or so I thought. A message being posted on this forum by a known, active member should be input enough. There should not have to be second, third, and forth emails or phone calls sent to 500 people to make the input legitimate.

As for the other Dan's concerns. I would very much like to see the costs of the events reduced. However, it will not, at this time make or break my bank, so I will attend as long as I can afford and/or they remain reasonable.

My $0.02

[Dan Chambers]

Dan C.,

One of the reasons I put together a forum which requires members to login and identify themselves was to legitimize the information communicated to the Chairs and BoD on the forum. Or so I thought. A message being posted on this forum by a known, active member should be input enough. There should not have to be second, third, and forth emails or phone calls sent to 500 people to make the input legitimate.

And, Mike, I agree with you. It should be input enough that a post to the forum gets the appropriate attention from those who volunteer to govern the club. Should be, and is, may not be meeting on common ground right now.

If you feel frustrated by this, imagine how some of the Board members might feel when we discuss issues and learn that not everyone who Chairs, or is on the Board goes to, and reads all the postings on the forum. You, and all the members of the Web Team have have done a GREAT job on the forum. It's my hope that more people spend some time on it reading, and inputting. It's an incredible resource that everyone should enjoy, and take advantage of. All the hard work you and others have volunteered to give should be reasonably appreciated. I'd like to see greater than 10 or 20 percent of our total membership participating on the forum (and 10 to 20 percent is a liberal number). Right now, it's just not happening that way.

So, unfortunately, posting on the forum may not be the most effective way to communicate issues to all the Chairs and Board members.

Mi dos Pesos, tambien.

[Kim Crosser]

Mike, Mike, Mike...

Contrary to public opinion, some of the SDR Board have lives that don't involve reading every post in every thread on this (very nice!) forum.

What Dan said - very diplomatically - was that it would be a good idea if you have a suggestion that should be brought to the Board's attention, that you should send it to a Board member, rather than assuming that one or more Board members will read every post, assimilate all the comments, revisions, misinformation, jokes, etc., and take it on themselves to raise it at a Board meeting.

As you know, all members are welcome to attend the Board meetings, and anyone can submit ideas to the Board for consideration. Posts on the forum (whether or not they are anonymous) are NOT requests for the Board members to consider anything.

Forum postings are for people who are interested in conversing on particular topics. As a means of suggesting policy changes, forum postings are a little like sending a message in a bottle - it may get somewhere, but no one knows when or where.

[gulf911]

Thanks to both Mike and Dan for your comments and input. I can most certainly send my concerns to the chairs if that will help.

Thanks again,
Dan

[MikeD]

I did not say every post in every thread. A little extreme and blown out of proportion, typical.

In this particular case, Dan A. raised a concern. Dan C., a member of the BoD, responded to it. So now we know that a member of the BoD has read, and understands a member of the clubs concern. Had Dan C. not responded to Dan A. then of course assuming that the information get propogated to the BoD would be foolish. But he did respond. So it is natural for Dan A., and other members of the club who may be lurking, to assume that these concerns make it to the ears of the remainder of the BoD.

Unless of course what Dan C. is saying by request Dan A. send an email, is that he doesn't have a voice and/or that voice is not taken seriously at the meetings?

BTW, it's not the first time Dan A. and others have voiced this concern. So it should be taken as a serious concern without Dan A. having to jump through a ton of hoops to get heard.