Hitting / Missing Slalom cones

[Kim Crosser]

There was considerable confusion yesterday about slalom cones. What we tried to convey to the corner workers was:

If a car hits a slalom cone (even runs directly over it) that is just (merely!) a 2-second cone penalty. If a car passes 2 or more consecutive cones on the same side, that is a DNF, as they have technically gone "off track".

We had a couple of corner workers who wanted to declare DNFs when people hit the slalom cones, but a DNF should only be for all 4 wheels off course (or spin), and if they hit/went over the cone, then you could argue that at least one wheel could have been on the course...

A 2-second penalty is usually enough, and at least that way they can get a time for the run.

[Jackie C]

even if they hit the slalom cone head on? It's not like they went around it....

[LUCKY DAVE]

Sometime in the distant past, I hit a slalom cone square in the center of my driver's door (while flat sideways) in such a way that it went right through the window, bounced off my helmet, and out the other side. I hope no one who saw it remembers!
The penalty?... + one cone.

[MTrotter]

there is such thing as a magic pylon. if you can run over a pylon and save yourself more than 2 seconds... then its worth it!

[mrondeau]

even if they hit the slalom cone head on? It's not like they went around it....

Jackie, I thought the slalom cones where the only ones you missed?

[Jackie C]

Mark....I try to be an equal opportunity cone killer. Granted, I intentionally hit more cones on your corner than any where else, but you didn't seem to mind. This is just a preview of what you're in for should you ever try beating me.

[Bill Behun]

Thanks for clarifying this Kim. I was confused too yesterday.

I'll be a wise guy here - - Next 4 cone slalom I will pass the 1st on the left of the cone, 2nd on the right, [url]CLIP THE 3rd[/url]on my front left bumper (I'm still to the right on the cone), pass the 4th cone on the right. Will just knicking the 3rd cone gain me more than the 2 second penalty by being able to blow by it technically on the right without slowing.

I won't touch Mark's comment regarding Jackie - I'm already in trouble with her yesterday mentioning the cone hitting. JACKIE!

[SDGT3]

I just want to clarify that Jackie hit a cone at station 9 ON THE WARM UP LAP. Simply brilliant!!!! I've got to start doing that to others on the warm up lap to make them work a little harder...

[ttweed]

... a DNF should only be for all 4 wheels off course (or spin)

Just for precision's sake, I would make a clarification here that a spin in the context above must include all 4 wheels leaving the course to be a DNF. A loss of control does not necessarily mean an automatic DNF, as I have seen people spin and remain completely within the cone layout before. If you can spin without knocking over a cone, and then carry on down the course without driving outside the designated boundaries, it is still a legal, penalty-free run (albeit quite a slow one). This can easily happen in slaloms or "open element" layouts where the boundaries are expansive or ill-defined (like some of the "open 180" corners we lay out with gates defining the entrance and exit, but nothing else between them.) There is no time limit on returning the car to the proper line and continuing down course. You can spin and slide past a slalom cone (as long as you pass it on the correct side and don't hit it), stop and recover, and as long as you still drive past the next slalom cone on the correct side, your run counts and there is no penalty (except for the time you spent recovering your error, which is its own penalty, of course.)

TT

[Jackie C]

OK Peter,
1st, "this is a practice lap, cones don't count" isn't an invitation to hit ONE, but that's pretty good for me! 2nd, Despite what some may think, I actually try not to hit cones, so let this be an apology to all I've offended. It's an added beauty of driving a 944 spec exterior that I've grown to appreciate... 3rd, I'll let your comment slide because I will never be able to beat you, but honestly that yellow shirt is just my size!!! (someday my smack talk is going to get me in trouble.)

[mrondeau]

Mark....I try to be an equal opportunity cone killer. Granted, I intentionally hit more cones on your corner than any where else, but you didn't seem to mind. This is just a preview of what you're in for should you ever try beating me.

Jackie... Thanks for helping with my exercise routine. I especially liked that you spread the cones out so that I wouldn't get bored running to the same spot again and again. I dont' think you have to worry about me for a while. it's your husband that you should be worried about. He posted some good times yesterday and drove a very clean (hit less cones) and smooth line yesterday. I think if he a different instructor or two he could take you. I'd happily volunteer to instruct him.

[Jackie C]

You're a good sport Mark, I appreciate the offer. He said he'll only run an occasional AX, but I'd love to have him ride with other instructors. Recently I was helped by riding with an instructor and am grateful for the opportunity. There is ALWAYS more to learn.

[Kim Crosser]

Just for precision's sake, I would make a clarification here that a spin in the context above must include all 4 wheels leaving the course to be a DNF.

Tom is absolutely correct (as usual). The Zone 8 competition rules clearly state:
"Four wheels off the designated course will constitute a DNF (did not finish)."
There is no other condition that results in a DNF penalty. Hitting a slalom cone is just a 2-second cone penalty. Especially if you hit it head-on, as clearly at least one of the front wheels must still be on the correct course.
We have had cars spin at the finish and go through the finish backwards without hitting any cones and the times are fully valid. (And then there are those of us who have gone through a finish sideways and didn't miss any of the cones. )

[993Panzer]

I'm guilty of coming through the timing lights backwards without hitting anything. I have also done a complete 360 (2 different times) without hitting any cones. There is something to be said for growing up in the North East and learning how to drive in the snow.

[ttweed]

Tom is absolutely correct (as usual). The Zone 8 competition rules clearly state:
"Four wheels off the designated course will constitute a DNF (did not finish)."
There is no other condition that results in a DNF penalty.

This rule is more strict in some ways than the SCCA Solo II rules. You are actually allowed under SCCA rules to backtrack if you go off course to correct your mistake. The act of going off course with all 4 wheels does not automatically result in a DNF. Only omitting a portion of the course does. If you go off course and realize it in time, you can turn around, re-enter the course befoe your mistake was made, and repeat the section correctly, even drive through parts of the course twice, if need be, without penalty (as long as you knock no cones out of their boxes while doing this).

Here is the relevant section of their rules. Note that there are special conditions for going too slow on course after stopping for a downed cone (or red flag), or for tripping the finish light beam with wheels off course (or tripping them twice) which does result in a DNF, due to delaying the event or causing someone else to have a rerun):

7.9.2 Pylons Down on Course

A competitor encountering a downed or displaced pylon on course
has the option of continuing the run or stopping as soon as possible,
and pointing out the downed or displaced pylon to a course worker.
If the competitor stops, he or she must proceed directly and slowly
off course and will then be granted a rerun. However, if the
competitor completes the run, the time will stand.
In the case in which a competitor is red flagged or stops for a
downed or displaced cone on the course, the competitor may continue
slowly through the remainder of the course, or may exit the
course directly, and will be granted a rerun if appropriate. Failure to
exit the remainder of the course at an appropriate speed (generally
25-30 mph) will result in a DNF for that run. It is important to clear
the course in a timely manner to ensure the event remains on schedule.
Reruns for downed cones after the timing finish line will only be
given at the discretion of the Chief Steward

7.9.3 Course Deviation

A “DNF”, or a time penalty if so specified in the supplementary
regulations, shall be charged for any uncorrected deviation from the
course, or for unnecessarily delaying the event. A course deviation
shall not be charged if any part of the car hits a marker defining the
limits of the course. A DNF is charged only if part of the course is
omitted. In returning to the course after an off-course excursion, it
is acceptable to drive a part of the course a second time.
If the finish trip beam is broken while the front two wheels of the car
are off-course, the run will be scored as a DNF. Additionally, if after
breaking the finish trip beam a driver causes the finish trip beam to
be broken again, stopping the timer for the following driver, the time
for the first driver will be scored as a DNF and the second driver may
be granted a rerun.

TT