2005 TT schedule complete w/Buttonwillow date

[kary]

Here are some stats of DNR's for 2004 in time trails.

1/24/04 11/38
2/15/04 6/41
5/16/04 16/51
6/28/04 13/44
10/02/04 12/57
11/14/24 13/45

Total 71/276 ==> 25.7% DNR's

Here are some stats of DNR's for 2004 Auto-x (no rain outs):
3/13/04 5/107
6/06/04 6/96
7/24/04 15/135
8/21/04 8/87
9/11/04 7/80
10/9/04 5/87

Total 46/592 ==> 7.7% DNR's

So more than 1 out of every 4 of us will not post a time at time trail while less than 1 in 10 will DNR in auto-x. What do we think the major reason is for this?

[Jad]

So more than 1 out of every 4 of us will not post a time at an auto-x. What do we think the major reason is for this?

1) leaving early for other appointments
2) saving the car for upcoming race,
3) completed their test and tune and don't care about times

and then
4) mechanical

Most anyone who really cared to run, could borrow a car and post a time. May not be their best time, but at most events an SUV could get 3rd or 4th as there are not enough cars to lower it further.

[kary]

Here are some stats of DNR's for 2004 in time trails.

1/24/04 11/38
2/15/04 6/41
5/16/04 16/51
6/28/04 13/44
10/02/04 12/57
11/14/24 13/45

Total 71/276 ==> 25.7% DNR's

Here are some stats of DNR's for 2004 Auto-x (no rain outs):
3/13/04 5/107
6/06/04 6/96
7/24/04 15/135
8/21/04 8/87
9/11/04 7/80
10/9/04 5/87

Total 46/592 ==> 7.7% DNR's

So more than 1 out of every 4 of us will not post a time at time trail will less than 1 in 10 will DNR in auto-x. What do we think the major reason is for this?

Jad, sorry to edit my post, I added the auto-x stuff in there for comparison.

[gulf911]

Hi Kary,
Just as a side note, your statements were not out of context. People can read your entire statement. I simply pointed out what I thought was a contradiction.

Thanks Jad & Doug, I know the stars must be in alignment for Jad to agree with me...

I don't think you can't compare DNR's for a San Diego TT which is about 3 hours or more away, and a local AX. I have to agree with Jad also, my guess would be the people leaving early aren't competing for TT points anyway. Hey Jack! Put me in Red group, right in front of Kary.... Although I am going to need a 3.6 and slicks...

[MikeD]

Just to add my $0.02.

For the Fontana event we were pressed for time as we were there as the guests of POC. So in order to maximize our limited track time the decision was made to modify the timing format. For other venues this is probably not necessary as we already have more than enough track time.

I do not think taking the best time over the weekend as the "official" time would be a good idea. Others have given the reasons, but here are a couple of (personal) examples:

1) At SoW Jack drove one of my competitor's car for a 1:29 and some change on Sunday morning. Beating my best, and my competitor's best by 2 and 3 seconds. How would the timing system have known it was Jack driving and not my competitor?

2) At Pahrump the same competitor turned a couple of decent laps 0.5 seconds faster than I during practice. However, during timed runs I was able to maintain my semi-consistent lap times, while my competitor blew his two laps to finish 0.5 seconds behind me. I would have lost my class even though I was able to keep it together during timed runs and my competitor wasn't.

It might be fun to make the data available for informational use. But I don't think it's a good idea to use it as the official time for the weekend. When you race you have one chance to win that race and that's during the race, not qualifying or practice times. If TT is preparing those that want to race for racing it needs to have the same "pressure" at some point during the weekend.

Maybe a way to reduce the number of DNR's is to have a timed session as the last session on Sat. and then official timed runs on Sun. for those that stick around. If you are not going to be there on Sun. you can at least post a time. Granted it gives you competitors who will be there on Sun. the advantage of knowing what to beat, but at least you have the hopes of getting better than 1 point for the event.

[kary]

Hey Jack! Put me in Red group, right in front of Kary.... Although I am going to need a 3.6 and slicks...

Maybe Doug thinks I am one of those guys who will dive bomb you late to get my good time, but I don't think I will have any issue getting by you...unless of course you intentionally block me

OT: did any of you see that SCCA run offs on Speed this weekend when that kid drove off the track and then drove back on and slammed into that Cadillac and rolled him out of the race? Maybe if we changed the format we might all drive that way

[kary]

Just to add my $0.02.


1) At SoW Jack drove one of my competitor's car for a 1:29 and some change on Sunday morning. Beating my best, and my competitor's best by 2 and 3 seconds. How would the timing system have known it was Jack driving and not my competitor?

Mike, I think this could be an issue no matter what session it is. Not as likely during timed runs but nonetheless anyone could really show up in a car and drive the timed runs without anyone really knowing.


Hey, I am just trying to get some chatter here folks. I missed the last event and will not make the POC event upcoming due to some car enhancement work. Boy, I want to go to the track, and soon!!!!

[MikeD]

Mike, I think this could be an issue no matter what session it is. Not as likely during timed runs but nonetheless anyone could really show up in a car and drive the timed runs without anyone really knowing.

Well, I think it's far less likely for it to happen during official timed runs/sessions as I suspect the instructors are an honest bunch and will not intentionally cheat. But I know the value of having an instructor drive your car during a practice session. So I wouldn't want to eliminate that option. Nor would I want to create a bunch of adminstrative headaches by requiring instructors to keep track of and inform the timing crew of the laps in which they drove their students car.

[MikeD]

Hey, I am just trying to get some chatter here folks. I missed the last event and will not make the POC event upcoming due to some car enhancement work. Boy, I want to go to the track, and soon!!!!

You should come up to BW anyway so you can help me keep from getting killed by all those Orange Group racers I think I am going to need at LEAST 5 sets of eyes!

[gulf911]

(Chatter Smack) "but I don't think I will have any issue getting by you..."

(Caution! Smack ahead!)

Kary, Kary, Kary...if I had a 3.6 and slicks we wouldn't be having this conversation...

[kary]

(Chatter Smack) "but I don't think I will have any issue getting by you..."

(Caution! Smack ahead!)

Kary, Kary, Kary...if I had a 3.6 and slicks we wouldn't be having this conversation...

I guess you did not see my post above about modifications. How do you know we would not be having this conversation even if you had slicks and a 3.6? That also mandates that you would need to drive up to the expectations of slicks and a 3.6!!

[MikeD]

Kary, Kary, Kary...if I had a 3.6 and slicks we wouldn't be having this conversation...

if, if, if, if, if!

If I had a faster car I could beat Kary too!

[kary]

Kary, Kary, Kary...if I had a 3.6 and slicks we wouldn't be having this conversation...

if, if, if, if, if!

If I had a faster car I could beat Kary too!

If I had a faster car I could beat Jack! Maybe it is not our cars...hmmmmm...

[gulf911]

Mods Schmods....Faster? Who said I need a faster car? I just need parity, a 3.6 and slicks...

Man, That just wasn't right...

[Doug]

No, Kary, you'd never pull a bonehead move like that. Usually, it's someone with a lot less experience and delusions of grandeur.