Forum Posting (And Cross Posting)-Read this!

[Steve Grosekemper]

There were comments on another thread about posting a thread in say "General Discussions" and then going to the "Announcements" and telling people to go to the general discussions thread to see it.

STOP THIS!!!!!!!!!!
This is very bad message board etiquette (You know who you are)

This is also completely unnecessary.
If you are a registered user (and if you are a PCA member you should be) when you log in it sees what threads/posts you have and have not read. (From any computer) It even tells you if someone has made additional posts on the thread you looked at yesterday and lets you start where you left off.

Here's how it works...
Log into the Forum.
(Optional) At the login page click always log me in and you will have one less step to make.
When you are logged in it will say your screen name after the "Logout" link in the upper right corner in the light blue bar.
That's how you know you are logged in.

You will then see this above the main menu:
View unanswered posts • View new posts • View active topic

Hit the "View new posts" link and you will....(You guessed it) View all the new posts since you last visited the site.
If someone made an announcement; it will tell you that.
After you read everything you wanted to read hit the board index button (That is the home page)
Then click "mark forums read" and close the page after it refreshes.
That resets your account and tells the computer to look only at stuff that is posted after you hit the button on your next visit.

I know some of you have real lives and don't sit perched in front of a monitor waiting to see what ridiculous comment (Insert posters name here) has just posted to the forum. But no matter if you come here once a day, once a week or once a month; this will make your visit easier to navigate.

OK- That's it. I hope this explanation makes your time spent here a more enjoyable one...

[MikeD]

Like

[MTrotter]

It happens all the time and no one seemed to care before.

See the announcement page for more info....

[Dan Chambers]

Sorry for my ignorance. I didn't know what "cross-posting" was ... until this weekend. (Cross-dressing is another issue ... but I don't want to talk about it. )

I also wasn't aware of the rules against such egregious forum behavior. I assure you it won't ever happen from this (insert poster name here) forum name again.

Now, can somebody please untie me from this whipping post? My car is almost finished and I want to go drive.

With Respect.

[ttweed]

It happens all the time and no one seemed to care before.
See the announcement page for more info....

This is true. Dan is not the worst (or only) offender by far. He just seemed to be following the example set by many club volunteers posting duplicate messages about events in both "Announcements" and "General Discussions." It has been going on for a long time.

I have always used the "view new posts" function ever since it became available in the last forum upgrade, and would be very happy to only see one posting for events, as Steve suggests, instead of duplicate messages showing up in the search results.

TT

[MikeD]

Dan, Tom, and all,

The admin team sort of looked the other way on this, and other etiquette related items, in the beginning for a couple reasons. 1) we hoped the community would moderate itself by explaining proper etiquette to new comers as they blurred or crossed the lines. 2) we did not want to come across jerks with a "dictator complex" forcing our view of proper etiquette upon the masses. And 3) we hoped it would not become a habit.

But Steve noticed, and the rest of the team is supporting him, that none of those assumptions have provided the results we desired to give us a properly running and behaving community. So we are pulling back the grace and are going to begin enforcing proper Netiquette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette) from here on out. Cross posting is the main issue, but we will be enforcing all netiquette policies and guidelines that we notice.

So, as a good netizen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netizen), if you see netiquette infractions you may report them by sending a link to the infraction to forum-admin@pcasdr.org. Or if you feel you have the time, are sufficiently versed in proper netiquette, and would like to help keep this community running smoothly, let us know and we may grant you permission to help moderate the forum.

Thank you for your understanding.
Mike

[Dan Chambers]

Tom and Mike:

Thanks for freeing the bonds! I'm free, I'm free! Now where'd I put those keys.

Just out of curiosity: what if you're visiting the forum and don't have the privilege of knowing new post from old? That means you surf each index separately for what you might be interested in? Just curious...

[MR LIPP]

This is true. Dan is not the worst (or only) offender by far. He just seemed to be following the example set by many club volunteers posting duplicate messages about events in both "Announcements" and "General Discussions." It has been going on for a long time.

I have always used the "view new posts" function ever since it became available in the last forum upgrade, and would be very happy to only see one posting for events, as Steve suggests, instead of duplicate messages showing up in the search results.

TT

As the worst "offender" of cross posting I thought you would be interested to know why I do this.

I use it as a way to promote activities for the club. If you ever had to sweat the break-even of almost $30,000 on a DE, you too would be using every opportunity to get the word out.

I don't look at the "unread post" section; I have General Discussion bookmarked. The "view new posts" is so small that I never noticed it and never got used to using it. However, even if you do use it, it seems hard to believe that dozens of people click on a duplicate post. Even if they click on it a second time, they are more likely to get the message (advertising 101). How often do you tell somebody something once and they remember it.

In general, I find the racers look at General Discussion and non-racers look at Announcements. This comes from my discussion with people interested in Tours etc who did not even know what the General Discussion forum is. I also noticed it when I just posted in Announcements, someone would email me that they can't find the info "anywhere on the website". If double posting gets just one person to go to a DE, it seems like it is worth it to the club.

As an example: a Tech Session is interesting to both groups, which section should I post in? You can see hits in the General Discussions and in the Announcements forums. This has to be different people (why would you read this twice?) If nobody shows up to a Tech Session, the advertiser thinks he/she is wasting money on sponsoring the club.

As Autocross attendance is falling off, advertisers are cutting back and the club is worried about budgets, does it not make more more sense to get the word out, especially if there is no cost to the club.

BTW here is a link to a funny "How to behave on the forum" video

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum

[MikeD]

MR LIPP, and anyone else who feels slighted by this decision:

While we, who are responsible for keeping the forum alive and well, are proud that it has become seen as such a valuable tool for communicating with the club, please understand that that is not its purpose. The forum is provided by the club to its members as a means of keeping the sense of community and involvement alive between events. It is a place where all members can come and discuss thoughts, ideas, questions, or really anything Porsche, car, or club related.

However, please do NOT for a second think that it was put in place, and is continually maintained for the sake of advertising to the members. We put the Announcements section in place as a courtesy for forum users (that may rarely visit the main site) to stay in the loop. I was NOT intended to be a primary tool for pushing information out to the club in general. The club has email blasts, a newsletter (Windblown whiteness), the main website, and the calendar of events (on the main site) for getting the word out about events and other information that needs to be communicated to the club masses.

Announcements -- is for, um... announcing things!
General Discussions -- is for, um... discussing things.

If you run across members who do not read one of the other, then encourage them to read the other. PCA national has just enlisted the use a new email service, which will communicate with the club. Your ABSOLUTE best way to ensure that all members possible get the information needed for your event is to use this tool. Contact the emaster (emaster@pcasdr.org) to learn how this tool can be used for your events. Add the event to the calendar. And, if you wish put an Announcement on the forum. And that is all that is needed.

We appreciate that the forum has become such a big part of keeping club members in contact with each other between events. But its importance in the community does not warrant its abuse (i.e. the end does NOT justify the means).

Thank you for your understanding.

[tb911]

I would like to second the sentiment that the proper place to advertise (announce) events and event details is the calendar. Having everything in one place on the web site makes things easier for everybody.

If you can't make a flyer, either from lack of time, software or skill, email our club flyer master, Jad Duncan, at eventflyers@pcasdr.org and he will whip one out. That serves two purposes -- the Witness and the web site.

[MR LIPP]

MR LIPP, and anyone else who feels slighted by this decision:

While we, who are responsible for keeping the forum alive and well, are proud that it has become seen as such a valuable tool for communicating with the club, please understand that that is not its purpose. The forum is provided by the club to its members as a means of keeping the sense of community and involvement alive between events. It is a place where all members can come and discuss thoughts, ideas, questions, or really anything Porsche, car, or club related.

However, please do NOT for a second think that it was put in place, and is continually maintained for the sake of advertising to the members. We put the Announcements section in place as a courtesy for forum users (that may rarely visit the main site) to stay in the loop. I was NOT intended to be a primary tool for pushing information out to the club in general. The club has email blasts, a newsletter (Windblown whiteness), the main website, and the calendar of events (on the main site) for getting the word out about events and other information that needs to be communicated to the club masses.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sorry Mike, I do not understand. I am not a lawyer, but in looking at the following from our bylaws, I do not read the rules to say that a forum can't be used to promote club events. On the contrary, I read "Topics discussed on the Forum are expected to relate to the overall purpose of SDR" to mean that a club event is exactly what is meant to be discussed on the forum as it is relates to the overall purpose of the club. How can promoting club events in any forum be objectionable to the membership? Obviously, you guys are the forum moderators and I have to follow any rules you make up, but I also feel that sending an email blast for every Tech Session, Tour or Autocross would be an abuse of the email list that we have.

Forum
The Forum area of the web site is designed primarily to allow members to comment on issues affecting the Club, and to allow members to solicit technical advice from one another. This area is open to all members of SDR who have provided valid registration information and accepted the conditions of use. Any registered member may post messages on the Forum.
Topics discussed on the Forum are expected to relate to the overall purpose of SDR. Messages of a commercial nature are inappropriate, as are messages containing offensive or abusive language, and those that disparage any product, company, or individual.
The webmaster may establish reasonable restrictions on length, style, and frequency of messages.
The webmaster will warn members who violate the posting restrictions. Repeat offenders may be denied access to the Forum.
When information is posted from other sources, the webmaster must ensure that the author and source have granted permission for doing so. (This is especially important when posting information from secondary sources.) The posting should credit the author and the original source, and should include the source’s copyright notice if required.
Policies relating to use of the Forum should appear prominently on the web site as well as in the registration agreement.

[ttweed]

As the worst "offender" of cross posting I thought you would be interested to know why I do this.
I use it as a way to promote activities for the club. If you ever had to sweat the break-even of almost $30,000 on a DE, you too would be using every opportunity to get the word out.

I knew this without you telling me, Martin, and your zeal to promote Club events is admirable, which is why I have never complained about it.

...it seems hard to believe that dozens of people click on a duplicate post. Even if they click on it a second time, they are more likely to get the message (advertising 101).

More is not always better. Advertising 102 says there is a point where repetition can become annoying and you can drive customers away (not that I think you have done that with your multiple announcements). As regards the duplicate post issue and why anyone would look twice--what you are forgetting is that there can begin two different discussions from each one. I never click on both when I see that there are zero replies, but once people respond, then there can be two active threads about the same event going on, with different questions and answers being asked and offered. You need to trust that people will find what they need to know and train them to expect it in a certain place, and then keep all the info in one thread, IMHO. Multiple threads confuse the issue, and require someone who is truly interested in being kept up to date on any news or changes to an event to check, scroll through, and read both threads. This was especially true with a big event like the Coronado DE, where pertinent info was spread out in at least 3 different threads over time.

I understand your desire to promote events in these tough times, and the annoyance caused from duplicate posts is really quite trivial, in most cases, so please do not take this as a discouraging development or a serious attack on your past practices, but I think Mike's and Tom Brown's points about other venues for promotion could be useful, and so could a single, consolidated thread here on the forum, with members trained to find every new posting using Steve G.'s technique above.

No offense intended, whatsoever!
TT

[MikeD]

Etiquette (pronounced [,eti'ket]) is a code of behavior that delineates expectations for social behavior according to contemporary conventional norms within a society, social class, or group.

Note that this does not define them as rules or laws. They are what is considered polite behavior, the opposite of which is considered rude. Since hoping for polite behavior has not been successful, the forum admin team will begin encouraging polite behavior.

The "Announcement" forum is for announcements. The "General Discussion" forum is for discussions. Cross posting will not be allowed.

[ttweed]

Hit the "View new posts" link and you will....(You guessed it) View all the new posts since you last visited the site.
If someone made an announcement; it will tell you that.
After you read everything you wanted to read hit the board index button (That is the home page)
Then click "mark forums read" and close the page after it refreshes.
That resets your account and tells the computer to look only at stuff that is posted after you hit the button on your next visit.

One important point left out of this explanation that is useful for those with little or no internet forum experience is that in dealing with long threads, which have multiple postings (and even multiple pages of postings over time), when you revisit the thread because it came up in the "new posts" listing, there is a "first unread post" link on the upper right of the frame that will take you directly to the first new message in the thread since your last visit, skipping over the old messages that you have already viewed, as long as you are logged in and used the "mark forums read" function on your last visit. This can save a lot of scrolling and paging time.

HTH,
TT

[MR LIPP]

Thanks Tom
BTW I stole this from Rennlist

Rennlist Posting Guidelines:

Promoting Non-Commercial Events: From time to time, posts promoting a not for profit event of interest to the Rennlist community will be permitted. Said posts should appear in a maximum of 6 forums and not repeated more than once a month. Posts of this nature will be closely scrutinized. Any attempt to disguise a commercial venture as a not for profit event will be dealt with promptly. When in doubt consult with a Rennlist Moderator to be pre-cleared.