So, who has a used boxster motor lying around?

[rshon]

If you've ever taken out/swapped an engine out before, it's not really any more complicated (except the engine comes out the bottom of the car), so your lift might help a lot. You will probably want to use the engine wiring harness from your old engine just in case your new engine is from a different model year, or has a different transmission type. So if you're going to take it on, take a lot of pictures and label every connector and hose you disconnect.

If you really like driving your 9 year old Boxster at AX's and DE's (I do), you should try one of the 20+ year old 944's before you seriously think about switching (it's not the same). There are also a lot of annoying things you will need to fix on a $5k car that is over 20 years old (not all of them cheap). But they do seem to be able to get replacement engines easier and cheaper...

[Dan Chambers]

I see the merits of the 944, but that engine in the front thing...though it seems like so many of you really like them, and the price is right!

It's not where the engine is, it's where the driver's mindset is. Just ask Mark Rondeau.

There are also a lot of annoying things you will need to fix on a $5k car that is over 20 years old (not all of them cheap). But they do seem to be able to get replacement engines easier and cheaper...

After having both a 944 and a 911 I can tell you the best bang for the buck and the most fun for the dollar you could find in a track use Porsche is with a 944 or 944S in good mechanical shape. The only thing you might miss is the power/torque-to-weight ratio of the 911/986. But ask Mr. Rondeau if that matters. Key here: good mechanical condition. Just MHO.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Just get back to the track soon.

[mrondeau]

Dave,

I love Boxsters. We have two of them. They are a lot of fun to AX, they handle really well and my 2006 S has lots of HP and torque. The downside is that they can be very expensive to repair. Older Boxsters are being driven more and more on tracks and a lot of suppliers are coming out with more track specific parts and improvements for them. You still need to spend about $25 - 35K to prepare a spec Boxster.

I love 911's. I've owned a couple of them. They are the most fun and challenging to drive. They can be very expensive to set up and repair. I chose to run 944's because I could get more bang for the bucks. I'll probably get another 911 in the future because I just love driving them.

I love 944's (Do you see a trend here?). They are inexpensive to buy and relatively inexpensive to set up for track racing. You can spend $2500 (half the cost of your rebuilt motor) for a 944 in good running condition and drive it in GSS as you learn the car and slowly modify it to suit your needs, budget and goals. A fully prepared Spec 944 can be had for $10 - 15K depending on what you want to do. I was able to buy a motor, have it gone through, with new rod and main bearings, a used crank, misc. other parts, and all new seals and have it installed in less than two weeks for less than $4k. Keep in mind that mine is a much rarer 944S. 8 valve motors are much easier to find and less expensive.

We had 19 944 drivers at the last AX. A well driven 944 Spec or GP class car can compete with almost all of the cars at an average AX and can get into the top ten or even win BRI.

On the big tracks, they're as much fun as your Boxster and will run similar or better times. If you've ever wanted to know what one feels like, I'll be happy to take you around at an AX or one of the tracks. Ask Jackie Corwin, John Kincaid, Sean Steele, Morgan & Ron Trotter, Tim & Tony Comeau or any of the other 944 drivers how much fun these cars can be. You'll learn more about driving and car setup than you ever imagined.


Just my .02. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jad]

I think you will find that most of the top drivers in the club have all spent a lot of time in 944's as they teach you to drive. They will go fast, but you need to be smooth, on line and maintain momentum.

A partial list of some of the former 944 crew includes myself (I owned 6+ of them), Dan Andrews, Steve Grosekemper, Erik Kinnenger, Ralph Linares, Dan Chambers, Martin Reinhardt, Dave Gardner, Paul Young (924), etc, etc. Add in the current 944 drivers and you find most of the fast people, have learned a lot in 944's. Not that the Boxster is not a great car to learn in, it just costs a lot more. Don't fool yourself though, nothing about racing Porsches is cheap, it is just relatively cheap to race 944's.

[Mmagus]

Since this thread has taken a turn into the cost / race / fun ratio I thought I would chime in because the car I chose was directly related to this. I had to ask myself what I was in it for. Fun? Driving fast? Driving REALLY fast? Learning new things? Pushing myself? Adrenaline/excitement? Competition? Fellowship with new friends? Of course many of these things and more are mixed in. But at some point I had to focus and ask, What am I after and how much am I willing to pay to achieve it? Because it really boils down to that in some form. I am in my 924S under 4K total, and that’s with the new Toyo R1-R’s I just bought.

The last AX the difference between TToD and my GSS time was about 8 seconds. True I will never hit that mark unless everyone stays home. True I probably will never get the BRI award. However, the competition in our class is huge and I would argue that I got just as much enjoyment out of the day as someone in a car costing 10 or 20 times what mine did.

If you care to take a spin in Tuffy (my 924S) just see me at an AX.

Pastor Mark

[Kim Crosser]

A couple of years ago, I did an "arrive and drive" at a couple of DE's with one of Tim Comeau's 944s. I have to admit that it was equally as much fun as the Boxster, just in different ways. Maybe it didn't have as much horsepower, but it was a lot lighter and very responsive. It is a LOT easier to throw around corners than the Boxster.

If I could afford a race car at this time, it would be a spec 944.

[Jad]

I have gotten a couple requests, so here is my experience with the Accusump (going back on topic)

Here are the threads I sent to others. A little out of order, but you should get the gist...

The Accusump sounds great until you actually try to use it. Basically it is a tank spliced into the oil line between the pump and engine as you know. It holds 3-4 quarts of oil which gets filled by the pump when there is oil pressure, and empties when there isn't 'enough' pressure. All sounds great. OK, my first problem, how much oil do you put in the car? When you turn it off, the tank empties and dumps 4 quarts (or some other amount) into your engine. Clearly will read too high on the dipstick and way overfills the engine. It is 'probably' ok to start the engine with excessive oil and it should be gone before you really start driving, but assuming things are working correctly, how do you get the right amount of oil in the car besides just guessing???

The next issue, the problem with our cars is too much oil gets into the head and 1) starves the pump greatly increasing wear or 2) gets sucked into the intake and explodes the engine. The Accusump helps with 1), but actually worsens 2) by dumping even more oil into an overwhelmed return system. So you are now at max g's, full throttle and you have 4 quarts too many in the engine until the pump refills the tank.

I feel the Accusump is a patch, you really need to solve the problem of getting the oil out of the engine, back to the pan if you expect your engine to last a long time under racing conditions. We just use the accusump to dump oil in to prelube for cold starts, then turn it off. It is also very handy when you are at the track and want to top off the oil level. A quick twist of the valve and some fresh oil is added. No bottles or messy rags needed.

more info....

We have the manual valve on the accusump for turning it off completely, but you never now exactly how full it is as it changes with the amount of pressure and temp of the oil when closed. We also have the electric pressure switch which kicks the accusump in when the pressure drops. I believe ours is about 1.5 bar? Which means a HOT idling motor drops below that amount and floods the engine, but if it is any higher, it wouldn't help with foam pickup as the pressure stays up a little when the pump sucks air and foam. I don't know of any oil level sensors that work under load. We did hook up a oil pressure sensor to the aim. It sorta works, but it jumps randomly between proper readings of 4-5 bar and 14-15 bar with the accusump off? Have never figured out why, but records no values of 0 so the system seems to be ok.

I don't know of enough people running the accusump in watercooled Porsche's to know, nor is it possible to tell what went wrong afterwards much of the time. Just doesn't sound good to me. Plus, if the oil level is wrong because of the Accusump and you are running a quart or two low, the 'patch' has now become a vital component keeping oil pressure to the engine and I don't trust it nearly as much as I trust Porsche. I can see how the Accusump would work on simpler tall V8's, but I just don't think it improves things on our complex flat 6 engines though I can not prove it other than I think Porsche would use it if it was really a solution.

[Kim Crosser]

What about the X51 sump/pan solution? I blew my motor at Fontana last year apparently through oil starvation and have had recommendations to put an X51 oil pan on the Boxster before I try it again.
Comments on that approach?

[gocart]

I have been wondering if Porsche has addressed this issue with the new Boxter Spyder? Seems to me that oil capacity is the bottom line. 911s use a dry sump with an oil tank to get around this problem, right?

[Jad]

After the first engine blew apparently due to too much oil in the intake, we (Steve Grosekemper) added the Porsche Motorsports kit which adds two more scavenger pumps (don't think it is an x-51 kit, but it may be), but I don't know exactly how it works, you would have to ask him. The kit wasn't too expensive, maybe $1,500, but the installation isn't simple and the engine needs to be out of the car. Again, Steve has the details and would know if there is room in the Boxster. We also added an additional oil seperator as too much oil also destroys the engines as the oil piles up in the engines so much, it gets sucked into the intake through the seperator and obviously doesn't compress. As a final measure, we added spacers to oil pan to increase capacity (and to the pickup) which reduces the sloshing by increasing the depth of the sump and increases capacity.

Since these mods, the engine has run flawlessly with two hard drivers, no drops in oil pressure according to the data acquisition system and no smoke at start-up.

[kleggo]

You might want to search Motormeister on Pelican before you give them any work.

aaaaaahhhhhhhh the master of understated advice.

[ttweed]

I have been wondering if Porsche has addressed this issue with the new Boxter Spyder? Seems to me that oil capacity is the bottom line. 911s use a dry sump with an oil tank to get around this problem, right?

It's not really capacity that is the problem, it is scavenging the oil properly from the cylinder heads under hi-G loads in braking and cornering, plus "sloshing" of the oil in the pan that creates cavitation in the supply pump that is providing lubrication to critical moving parts, as well as the oil becoming aerated from the crank and rods whipping it into a froth in the crankcase, which requires some sort of air/oil separation system.

The new direct-injection engines in the new Porsche sportscars have had the oiling system completely redesigned now, after 10 years of "spotty" problems, and even the Turbo model has the new "integrated dry sump" which is really a misnomer, as it is actually a wet sump system, just a really sophisticated one, achieved by integrating the dry and wet sump space in the engine crankcase instead of having the dry sump reservoir in a separate container, and using multiple scavenge pumps to keep oil from pooling in the heads, as well as an oil separation system to remove the entrained air. Porsche claims that they have overcome all the initial problems of the design now, but up until this direct injection motor was introduced, all the high-performance Porsches (Turbo, GT2 and GT3) were still built with the old blocks from the air-cooled era, with proper dry sump oiling systems. None of the Boxsters, Caymans or Carreras have had a true dry sump since they went to water cooling in '99. I am still waiting to see if they have succeeded. Only time will tell.

TT

[Cajundaddy]

The simplest solution to the oil pickup problem would be a baffled pan and a "G swivel" on the pickup tube. The pickup tube has a 360 degree rotation and a small pendulum at the end so it would swing whichever direction the oil is going: Heavy braking- oil pickup swings forward, sustained high G left turn at Fontana- oil pickup swings right. This technology has been used in race cars before and should be very inexpensive to do.