"Taste of the Track" at AX events?

[lagrasta]

I think this is a missed opportunity for both boosting membership and improving our image in the community. I've even considered looking into track days outside the PCA just so I can share some of this experience with my extended family. Heck, why don't we do a specific "Ride-a-long" day several times a year. I'll volunteer to drive and whatever else is needed.

As long as it doesn't turn into extreme hoonage, I don't see what's wrong with it.

[jenniferreinhardt]

Heck, why don't we do a specific "Ride-a-long" day several times a year. I'll volunteer to drive and whatever else is needed. As long as it doesn't turn into extreme hoonage, I don't see what's wrong with it.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about! If we only have a few ride-along tricklers at an AX - no biggie - but you guys remember the DE at Coronado, no? I heard many people talk of no tread left after giving rides. Didn't someone even spew forth?

Ideas for friends, family and public ride days could be at ...
specific AXs designated for this,
at the end of and AX - always wish I could have one or two more laps to really let her loose
Bring your Other Car AX,
Performance Driving School Lunchtime or Afterwards on Sunday (There were Instructors going out with no students last time - but then there is the corner working problem)

[jenniferreinhardt]

Well your hubby is uber competitive, some others of us really enjoy giving rides (maybe not during timed runs, but any other time )

Ahem, now Jad - we know that you also slightly enjoy scaring these poor folks!

[SDGT3]

I'll give a ride to anyone any time at any event, except during timed runs. I feel very fortunate to have the opporunity to drive such an iconic sports car and love to share that with someone else who may not have that chance. The extra 200 lbs or whatever it may be in the passenger seat during practice runs doesn't bother me at all because the car feels that much more responsive during the timed runs.

The problem is the club charging WAY TO MUCH for taste of the track to be considered a way to entice newbies -- not only at the autocrosses, but especially at Time Trials and DEs. The perception of others is that the club is trying to make up deficits in revenue by nickle and diming people. I've heard it from several people and have to agree when all is taken into account. If the club charges a $10 insurance wrist band fee, that is perfectly acceptable.

IF my wife comes out to a Time Trial or DE with me, why must the club charge my wife $100 for a taste of the track fee? To ride in the passenger seat of a car she owns? Does that make any sense? If you include the $10 gate fee charged by the track, the cost to ride totals $110 -- Only a few bucks less than actually driving the track herself!!!!

Martin came out to the Buttonwillow time trial with me a month ago and was literally taken out of my car on the pit wall until he paid his taste of the track fee. This was not a newbie or potential member, but a dual chair of DEs and Tech Sessions and a person who volunteers his time to instructor others and asked to pay $100! I thought we were being held up by some banditos. He didn't have his wallet on him while in the car and had to get out. Is that right? The club does not pay for my tires, brake pads or gas for hauling around an extra 200 lbs around a track, but yet collects extra $$ as it they do. We need to be more conscience of what we are doing and how our actions are perceived by others.

[Rsylvestri]

Martin came out to the Buttonwillow time trial with me a month ago and was literally taken out of my car on the pit wall until he paid his taste of the track fee. This was not a newbie or potential member, but a dual chair of DEs and Tech Sessions and a person who volunteers his time to instructor others and asked to pay $100! I thought we were being held up by some banditos. He didn't have his wallet on him while in the car and had to get out. Is that right? The club does not pay for my tires, brake pads or gas for hauling around an extra 200 lbs around a track, but yet collects extra $$ as it they do. We need to be more conscience of what we are doing and how our actions are perceived by others.

That's not right!!
This is the first I've heard of this kind of action, espeacially for a voulenteer
This should be addressed at the board meetings so we can have it right for 2011.
My .02

[Kim Crosser]

National defines two kinds of "ride" programs - "Track Tours" and "Taste of the Track". These are defined under the DE "minimum standards" section and really seem to be aimed at the continuous-lapping, higher-speed track events. Assuming that all provisions apply equally to AX events, the key differences are:
(Key definition - "Participant" is someone who registered for the event, not a spectator who wandered by during the event.)
Track Tour - Open to non-Participants, no restriction on riders other than the usual waiver requirements. Must be held while there is no active lapping by participants (i.e., lunchtime while track is cold). "Speed must be limited to 60 MPH.".
Taste of the Track - Riders must be Participants, must register and pay a fee, must be 18 or older, participants are encouraged to attend all the activities (track walk, drivers' meeting, etc.). "Registering people for the sole purpose of “thrill” rides is not acceptable."

Note that there is nothing that says the Taste of the Track registration/fee has to be the same as for a driving participant. We could offer registration for the event with a $10 fee for AX TotT and comply with the standards. DE/TT guys could do the same with a reduced TotT fee ($50? $100?).

I for one would not mind providing rides to interested "participants", but I strongly agree with Tom's earlier posts - these should not be offered for fun (or money!) to spectators or friends who are not likely to be future Porsche owners and real "participants" in future driving events.

p.s. As I was about to post, I read the comments about Martin at Buttonwillow. The National standards are pretty strict about anyone in a car at a DE/TT event being a "participant" (see definition above), except for the Track Tour (60 MPH limit, anyone?). So - requiring registration and fee is part of the DE "MINIMUM" standards from National, NOT a PCA/SDR invention...

[SDGT3]

Why $50 or $100 for de or tt? What is the rational behind this arbitrary number? The club cost is $10 for insurance wristband if that. Again, I'll reiterate the perception of nickle and diming. A 500 to 1000% margin is so far out of line its ridiculous. Perhaps the driver actually footing the cost of consumables and giving the rides should get the extra$.

[325racer]

BMW has provisions to allow Instructors to take passengers, whether they be entrants, guests and other staff for rides at both DE's and AutoX. They must of course sign the appropriate waivers.

We really don't care who it is, and yes we do take them for "Joy" rides.

As a matter of fact at BMW autoX and track events (recent Chuckwalla exluded) we make it mandatory that an Instructor always have someone in the passenger seat, except during timed runs, it's their choice then.

But the difference is our Instructors do not pay an entry fee unless they are entering Timed runs, otherwise they are basically "working" the entire time. They can ride or take other instructors, students, staff, spectators, friends, family.

Maybe this is why we are still filling our events, as we normally have 20-30 new entrants at every event. Some never come back, but other do, but since our season is not a points season, people are more flexible at which events they attend.

Based on the way the Zone 8 rules are written, it does appear that you are stuck with this, but a proposal to change the wording or add a clause for AutoX Instructors to be able to take passengers might be worth exploring. I think I saw something in there that says other things may be approved by the board so it would not have to go into the Book, but be done as a Temp thing to potentially boost participation.

Here is a part from page 2 of the rules, which is what your trying to do. • Encourage new member participation and retention

I do think it is a bit rediculous to charge someone a fee to get a ride. Even more so to make them have to work or sit through the meetings, just to get a couple rides.

Currently it sounds like parts of the program are broken, so maybe it's time to fix them.

[Cajundaddy]

Good discussion all.
One of the goals of the PCA is to introduce drivers to performance driving in a closed course, safe, controlled environment. PCA-SDR has one of the best driver development programs in the country and takes this game to a very high level. Bravo to all who have been a part of this great club!

However I have often said, as others have throughout Zone 8 that our sometimes stiff Zone 8 barriers to entry make it difficult for some PCA members and families to participate. I discussed this with Jack and Robert in September and their response was: "get it in the rules and we will make it happen." They rightly don't want to ease the rules for one exception and then get left twisting in the wind in a lawsuit on the chance that someone gets hurt on their watch. I agree with their position. Lets find a way to make this sport accessible, safe, and fun while working within the bounds of our event insurance requirements. Lets get it in the rules so event chairs don't have to make these tough decisions trackside on their own. I don't think taste of the track was ever intended to be a profit center. A token fee ($10-$20 per day) seems reasonable to introduce a newcomer to the sport we all love.

I wonder how Zone 7 addresses these questions? BMW club? Corvette club?

[c4s4pcs]

I feel that I have to comment on this topic. My (recent) background is two years of SCCA AX and 5 SDR/Region 8 DE/Time trials this year. I have not yet been to a PCA AX, but we (my son and I) will check one out soon.

While SCCA has a very high safety orientation, the rules are a bit looser for riding along. Any registered driver may give a ride to any interested person in any run except for timed competition runs. The passenger must have signed a release and have an armband if the passenger is not a registered driver. I believe that a small fee may ($10.00?) be charged.

When my son and I were considering entering motorsports a few years ago, we stopped by an SCCA practice AX at Fontana. Watching the cars go around was OK, but it was not grabbing my son's attention. A co-worker of mine was there with his Elise, and offered Bret a ride - Bret signed the release, borrowed a loaner helmet, and went out. He came back with an ear to ear grin, and we bought the Miata two weeks later. We are both now time trialing with SDR, me in my Porsche and him in the Miata, and having a blast.

Although not an absolute, the easy availability of a ride helped greatly in accelerating our involvement with motorsport. I think that there is a very large difference between an AX, no traffic event and a continuous lapping event and I think that the passenger carrying requirements should reflect that. I also feel that easy access to AX rides will be a significant factor in increasing participant levels.

Just my $.02...

[Mmagus]

I was reading a Pano the other day and saw a picture of some region of the PCA doing their “Military Honor Day” which included rides for vets or active military (I’m not sure which) the gist of the story didn’t seem like it was centered on attracting participation but basically a “thank you/fun ride” . So, our club IS doing this somehow…AND publishing the event in the national magazine. There has to be a way for us to do the same on our region. Months ago I was chatting with Michael Dolphin about the possibility of this and he seemed open to the idea.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Most, if not all flight schools offer easy to access very low cost introductory flights (fun rides). Attracting new participants is the lifeblood of any flight school.
They know what they're doing.

[MR LIPP]

Peter
You forgot to mention that as DE chairs we fought to keep the Taste of the Track fee to only $30 (which is what I wound up paying at Buttonwillow to learn the track). The $30 price seemed like a fair donation to the club and was a nice little bonus when the club is struggling to make money on events. I would not pay that at an autocross or endorse the corner working idea

[SDGT3]

Peter
You forgot to mention that as DE chairs we fought to keep the Taste of the Track fee to only $30 (which is what I wound up paying at Buttonwillow to learn the track). The $30 price seemed like a fair donation to the club and was a nice little bonus when the club is struggling to make money on events. I would not pay that at an autocross or endorse the corner working idea

But that was after you protested that $100 was too much because you had already missed the first session of the day and it was Sunday, meaning there were only 2 more sessions left to get rides before the tire warm up and timed run sessions were to start. $30 to ride in 2 sessions plus the $10 gate fee was more than enough.

The point of you coming out was to learned the track again as it had been several years since you have driven it. As a national certified PCA instructor, you were trying to better yourself in the event you go to that track and are asked to instruct. To be asked to pay for that is what I have a problem with. You were not there for "joy" rides.

[MR LIPP]

BTW, there is no real increased insurance cost unless the number of participants goes over 100.
For example: 73 drivers plus 10 Taste of Track still costs $450 for the DE. 93 drivers plus 10 T of T would cost $600 insurance.
I suspect it is the same for AX & TT.