X CARS

[DonCostello]

This is an important topic for the future of the club. If I hadn't just noticed it on the Forum, I wouldn't even be aware of these issues. Should we be trying to get this in front of all the members so that those who care can have input (such as an article and opinion poll in the club magazine)? My thoughts / questions:
- I don't want to interfere with the Board, but would like to know what the status of these issues is and how I can have constructive input
- is there now a committee just looking at these issues and reporting to the Board? As I see it, the issues aren't AX in general (long-term use of Qualcomm, etc) but are limited to a few issues: fee structure, amenities (water,sodas, ice, etc), non-Porsche cars, etc
- are we in contact with Orange County as to how they deal with these issues? OCR and SDR are fairly unique in their monthly large-track AX programs
- do we really know whether members would hesitate to pay more? Should we poll that?
- shouldn't non-member X car drivers be willing to pay more than a token few dollars more to run? Why are we talking about $5 or $10 for such a privilege?
- can we increase sponsorship? Again, OCR has a number of sponsors for their AX program
- we could poll just those who regularly show up for AX. We could even just hand out such a poll on these issues at the next AX.

Anyway, I don't want to interfere with the Board which has probably spent many hours debating htese issues. But I am willing to be involved and help. I feel we need to define and focus the issues, solicit member input on those issues, perhaps have a committee on the specific issues which can report to the Board, and then let the Board make its decisions.

[lrayner]

Don, there was an email sent to the entire Club by our esteemed President to the effect that the issues being discussed on this thread would be addressed at the next Board meeting in July.
If you (or others reading this) didn't get it perhaps check your spam filter, add the Club to your email list, or check that the Club has your correct email address.

So following input from those in attendance at our July meeting, the Board will be making some decisions on the questions surrounding X cars. I am hoping to come up with a good excuse to be out of town that day
Seriously, while there are certainly ranges of opinions and proposals, I am confident that a consensus can be reached by the Board at our next meeting on how to move forward in a fair and practical way.

If you cann't be there to share your thoughts (briefly !) in person, feel free to contact any of the Board members beforehand.

[gocart]

I don't remember that particular email. Can you give some specifics? Such has who was the sender? What was the date it was sent? That way I can check to see if I received it or not.

Thanks,

[martinreinhardt]

The email was sent on June 3rd, but I believe it was only sent to the chairs and board members NOT all members.

[DonCostello]

Leigh
Thanks for the info. I always get my PCA email and definitely did not receive anything on this. Perhaps someone can just post a copy on this Forum topic.

[Don Middleton]

I don't remember that particular email. Can you give some specifics? Such has who was the sender? What was the date it was sent? That way I can check to see if I received it or not.

Gordon, the email was sent by Carl Scragg, Club President. It basically asked that we discuss the x-car issue on the Forum, etc. and bring thoughts to the July Board meeting. In summary, Carl asked that we consider:
-possible limits on the number of x-cars at events;
-increasing the price for non-member participation at ax's;
-phasing-out the x-car program when/if the number of p-cars increases;
-allowing x-car drivers to qualify as instructors;
-allowing known x-car drivers to participate in our on-line forum;
-other?

[LUCKY DAVE]

I welcome the X cars and have no problem instructing in them.
Speaking plainly, It's the economy stupid! If we want to maintain the high quality of our AX events we need the revenue AND the bodies for corner working.
Lowering our legendary AX events to "Vons parking lot" level will drive away many........including me.
Something that will help is to find a route for some of the X car drivers to become instructors (some already are in other clubs) as that will ease the load on our instructor staff. I would love to just kick back and talk with my friends, or try different adjustments on my car at AX's but I never have time because I always have at least one student. I volunteered for this, I greatly enjoy sharing my love of going fast, and I'm not complaining. It's just .....once in a while.....
Charging the X guys more? Fine, after all they don't pay club dues, and the SCCA events suck, so I doubt we'll hear any complaints.
To those who sneer at four door sedans on our track I say you failed economics 101.

[lrayner]

The email was sent on June 3rd, but I believe it was only sent to the chairs and board members NOT all members.

Sorry, my mistake. Don Middleton has stated the essence of the email in his post.

[ttweed]

Everybody has opinions, and you asked for them, so here's mine:

Additional $10 for non members...Additional $5 for non P cars.

I agree with the $10 charge for non-members, rather than $5, but I don't agree with charging members an extra $5 for non-Porsches. Membership should have its benefits, and if your P-car is in the shop, or you want to run one of your other cars in X class, there shouldn't be a penalty for that, IMHO. It doesn't take me any longer to tech an X car than a Porsche, especially a Porsche like a Panamera or Cayenne that we rarely see and I have no more familiarity with than an S2000 or Miata. The cars that are showing up are of a few types that are routinely tracked, like Lotus, BMW, S2000, Miata, Corvette--the tech crew is growing more familiar with them all the time and it will be less of a problem as time goes by. It does present a problem sometimes when people are not familiar with our particular safety rules and procedures, but this is no different than when a P-car newbie shows up, and is a matter of education that can be overcome in time by making more info readily available to non-members. I like seeing X cars at our events. I like driving X cars at our events. I want to compare my P-car times against X car times and vice versa. The "exclusiveness" of the marque means little to me. Having our AX series survive at a reasonable cost means a lot to me. In these economic times, I think we need to encourage non-member X-car participation. When we regularly have 100 Porsches show up again, we could limit X cars to 20 or 30 per event. When we are regularly drawing 130-140 P-cars again, we could consider excluding them. I don't think now is the time to do that.

This is a huge bargain compared to what SCCA members are paying for each minute of track time and helps offset the fact that they are not paying local dues.

This is not really true. The SCCA championship events can draw 2-300 entrants and you only get 3-4 laps, but their practice events (which are almost as numerous) are very similar to our own. They limit entrants to 100 and you get 12-15 laps just like our events, with the added benefit that it can all be done in half a day of time commitment instead of all day--you can tech, walk the track, run all your laps in one session and corner-work another in either the morning or afternoon sessions, and be done in 4-5 hours. They charge $40 for this kind of event. You do indeed have to have an SCCA national membership now, either paying $75-85 for the year or buying a $15 "weekend" membership each time, as well as a SDR Solo card, which is a $10/year renewal after an original $25 dues. I think we have to keep in mind the competition that exists in the "AX scene" in San Diego from events like this, as well as the ones run by the BMW club, etc., if we want to attract non-Porsche drivers to keep our series solvent. There is also the draw of the very similar events OCR is running at the El Toro venue, which is just a 90-minute drive away. I think if we price our events higher than $60, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

Late tech--I have posted about this elsewhere. I believe a $10 penalty for not being in line by 7:30AM and $20 after the 8:00AM closing is sufficient if it is enforced stringently. There are sometimes legitimate excuses or reasons for being tardy, so there should be some flexibility to waive this by the tech or AX chairs, but this should be rare, and definitely of a "one-time" nature--repeat offenders should be assessed accordingly or excluded. The problem with this is procedural--there were only 5 tech workers at the last event, not nearly enough to control the situation, and there is no clear-cut club policy regarding collection of this fee. Some of this shortage of workers was due to the absences caused by a competing event, the POC Tribute at Fontana, which many of our techies were involved with, but part of it is from the increasing disincentives to work tech. The long-standing waiver from corner-working that has applied for years to tech workers and other key volunteers (if desired) has mostly gone by the wayside in these days of low attendance (another reason to increase overall entry numbers w/ X cars). If the tech crew is empowered to collect this fee directly, and allowed to apply it to incentives for the tech workers (early morning refreshments, special year-end awards, etc.) maybe we could turn this trend around.

Supplying alcohol to a bunch of tired dehydrated drivers with empty stomachs? Really? Can’t believe we actually still do this and haven’t gotten bitten...

I can't agree with this more. If we are looking for cost-cutting measures, this should be first on the list. Alcoholic beverages are far more expensive and not as universally desired or necessary, with the added detriment that we are one unfortunate incident and a hungry personal injury lawyer away from a disastrous lawsuit by doing this.

If we want to include non-members on the forum we can do this with a car number and date code for members who have already run driving events with us. It will not be automatic; these members will have to contact forum administration directly. But that is a board decision.

I think people who are running in our events should have access to the forum to take part in the discussions about them just like every member does. I am kind of surprised that there is so much resistance to this idea being expressed. It could be a powerful educational and recruitment tool for the club, getting newbies oriented more quickly and helping them move into fuller participation/volunteerism and even formal membership faster/easier/sooner. Why exclude them? There are more than a few of them who would like to become members, at least as affiliates until they take the step of actually buying a Porsche. Other than the limited, infrequent direct contact we have at events, where is there a better path for them to introduce themselves, develop relationships, and perhaps solicit a sponsorship as an affiliate from an existing member than on this forum? They are kind of in a "Catch-22" situation here if they have to be a member to post about wanting to be a member. This is a "pre-screened" bunch of potential recruits with like-minded interests that we would be foolish to ignore if we want to increase club membership. How long will it take them to realize that Jackie and Leigh and Herb are thumping their Miatas and S2000s in very reasonably priced 944 and 914 Porsches that are not beyond their reach? They are a trade-in away from becoming full-fledged PCA members and valuable long-time participants and volunteers. As a forum admin, I have already had to turn down an increasing number of these requests due to our existing club policy regarding the forum, and actually ended up sponsoring one of them as my affiliate who expressed a definite interest in contributing further at our events (the very S2000 driver mentioned in another thread who worked the start line for half the day on Sat.) I think we should change this policy, and allow non-member participants in our events to post here, subject to the same forum rules that we all abide by. I also think we should be allowing qualified X-car drivers to become instructors and take some of the load off our instructor corps, especially in handling the influx of new X-car drivers in similar cars.

Lastly, I do agree that events should adhere to the schedule and the number of laps per practice session altered as needed to begin and complete timed runs before 5:00PM. A 4-4-4 lap schedule should be achievable at most events and fairer to cornerworkers than front-loading the first sessions and cutting back later.

TT

[SDGT3]

I haven't been to the autocrosses in a couple years, but it sounds like the Xcar drivers out there right now are outstanding! They are willing to pay extra $ to run, help set up the course and break it down when others have already left, and help put the club in the black for the event. Where is the downside?

Some, but not all of these drivers could be very good and are already instructors with their respective clubs. Perhaps it should be upon the CDI (after board approval of course) to approach them to inquire about their:

1. Background in instruction

2. If they even want to instruct with PCA.

As others have said, they are probably out getting extra practice for their SCCA events and aren't exactly looking for more responsibilities. Who knows, after riding in a Porsche all day long, they may even be swayed to come over to the P side..... I did

[JERRY B]

They do want to become instructors, And one of them even wants my job

[martinreinhardt]

This brings up another point - What are the benefits of being a PCA member if I can get the same benefits without a PCA membership?

[pecivil]

there already IS an X class instructor. At least I had a student yesterday.

X class adds to the event IMHO. Of course I am biased. The key is to not let the X class peeps be their own clique and integrate them into the group. Car guys are car guys.
If they feel like part of the group, they will want to help. Do we need a X class liaison type person? I volunteer if the need is there. But I am not as sociable as Jackie C either.

if the X class cars are needed to keep the events the same while remaining financially viable, and the other option is to downsize the events, keep X cars. PCASDR has the best autoX program in SD and it would be a shame to dilute it down to a shorter track, fewer corner workers, no drinks, etc.

Charge them more, and don't let them off from helping, and all will be well.

[JERRY B]

You are hired Monte

[Kim Crosser]

Supplying alcohol to a bunch of tired dehydrated drivers with empty stomachs? Really? Can’t believe we actually still do this and haven’t gotten bitten...

I can't agree with this more. If we are looking for cost-cutting measures, this should be first on the list. Alcoholic beverages are far more expensive and not as universally desired or necessary, with the added detriment that we are one unfortunate incident and a hungry personal injury lawyer away from a disastrous lawsuit by doing this.

I suggested this a couple of years ago and you would have thought that I was proposing to put speed bumps in the tracks. This seems to be a "third rail" topic in SDR.