X CARS

[gulf911]

Well said Curt, and great idea about x car instructors. thank you.

Jerry, thank you. Apparently my point is not completely lost.

Edited? Anyone could simply read the post above mine for its entirety , its the same 'policy' inference. Regardless, no one said you need permission from 'members' , the issue was Board members/AX chairs.
Carl has stated that you already have a policy regarding instructing for non-members, and they (the board) would be the ones to make/change policy in that regard.
As I have already said, I agree with the position of instructors for PCA members first, X cars second.
I will lastly state not allowing a qualified NON-MEMBER instructor to instruct when we always seem to have a shortage, is not in the best interest of the club or its members, IMHO.

[ZombiePorsche44]

To muddy the waters, whatever you (CDIs and AX chairs) decide it would be nice if you told the pre reg folks who do the actual pairings. Or will the CDIs like to attend pre reg and do the pairings? Since we are doing them tonight?
Thanks,

Jackie,
The CDI's are requesting that prereg assign available PCA SDR instructors to PCA members in good standing first and non PCA member x car drivers second. If you need help with that let us know and we will be happy to assist.

Cheers,
'Joel

[ZombiePorsche44]

I will lastly state not allowing a qualified NON-MEMBER instructor to instruct when we always seem to have a shortage, is not in the best interest of the club or its members, IMHO.

As Carl Scragg has pointed out, this is not possible due to the PCA SDR Standing Rules currently in place.

[ttweed]

If we accept X as the best approach, then we have other issues, which are pretty much the same issues we always face. Instructors....never enough. Did any of you notice some of the X-drivers are pretty fast? Is that what the whining was about recently? Why not enlist these quality drivers to instruct other X-car drivers at our events? I personally have learned much from a Corvette driver at OCR, and I don't feel bad about it at all.

I support this position, and have stated so in previous postings. If the impediment to doing so is the SDR Standing Rules, then we should consider changing them. Like Curt, I have partaken of the OCR events at El Toro, and IMHO, they are enhanced by the X-car participation, not degraded or diluted. Several of the X-car drivers there are often multiple National Champion autocrossers, and could teach almost anyone in our club something about hustling a car around an autox course, regardless of the make or model. Some of them actually own Porsches and are PCA members, others are not. Some have won their championships in Porsches, some in their other cars. Some have done both (Gary Thomason comes to mind). These folks may be "big fish in a small pond," since autox is a fairly unrecognized sector of the motorsports field in general, but I enjoy seeing their skills demonstrated and the variety of cars participating, with which I can compare my Porsche's performance and my own driving. If you think it's simple to do what they've done, I suggest trying to compete on a national level sometime. It ain't easy!

I think if we are going to allow X cars, we should allow the most proficient among them to instruct the X-newbies, so as not to overload the PCA instructor corps. It just makes sense. If we are going to limit X-car participation, we need to think carefully about how we do that, and not act precipitously.

The CDI's are requesting that prereg assign available PCA SDR instructors to PCA members in good standing first and non PCA member x car drivers second. If you need help with that let us know and we will be happy to assist.

So, what happens when we run out of instructors? The policy you are intending to enforce July 2 means that any X cars who are not already "solo-qualified" will be sent home if there is not an available PCA instructor, no? This has ramifications beyond pre-reg, and the anger, frustration, resentment and disappointment we will generate among the people who get up early to come down to the stadium for our event only to be turned away is not something I want to see our club associated with. This is why such a change in policy has to be coordinated with appropriate procedures (and other involved parties) to minimize confusion and wasted effort before implementation, and cannot be made and imposed in isolation, as you are proposing to do. If we are going to turn people away, we should do it before they drive 5, 10, 20, even 100 miles early on a Saturday morning to run with us. If they are not going to be allowed to run, I would like to know that before I waste my time tech-inspecting their car. If we are going to turn away or limit x-car participation in any way at this point, after having established the expectation of their being allowed to participate over the past year, we need to carefully craft some new procedures to handle the situation with the least negative impact. These would include notifying people of the possibility first, before dropping the bombshell on them the morning of the event, IMHO. It might also include procedures for requiring prior experience for X-car drivers to sign up for our events (solo-qualification) if the lack of instructors is going to be a problem. Right now, we require instructors for anyone who has not run 4 events with us, I think, or at least a check-out ride or sign-off by a CDI or experienced instructor before anyone drives solo. Given the changing circumstances, might we not also consider whether this policy is adequate or needs modification/streamlining so as to turn away as few people as possible? What efforts do you plan on making to determine participant experience before turning them away on Saturday?

Whether the CDIs are "within their powers" to make such a change in policy is not the question. The reality is that CDIs do not operate in a vacuum, and there are other stakeholders involved who should be consulted before such a change is imposed, and the impact of "unintended consequences" of such a decision needs to be examined and balanced by mitigating procedures/policies.

That's my $0.02,
TT

[gulf911]

So, what happens when we run out of instructors? The policy you are intending to enforce July 2 means that any X cars who are not already "solo-qualified" will be sent home if there is not an available PCA instructor, no? This has ramifications beyond pre-reg, and the anger, frustration, resentment and disappointment we will generate among the people who get up early to come down to the stadium for our event only to be turned away is not something I want to see our club associated with. This is why such a change in policy has to be coordinated with appropriate procedures (and other involved parties) to minimize confusion and wasted effort before implementation, and cannot be made and imposed in isolation, as you are proposing to do. If we are going to turn people away, we should do it before they drive 5, 10, 20, even 100 miles early on a Saturday morning to run with us. If they are not going to be allowed to run, I would like to know that before I waste my time tech-inspecting their car. TT

Tom, Many excellent points, I think their quote and position was 'tough luck' which was duplicated in a revised quote as well. It was this attitude that I objected to and should not be part of this club.IMHO.

[ZombiePorsche44]

I think their quote and position was 'tough luck' which was duplicated in a revised quote as well. It was this attitude that I objected to and should not be part of this club.IMHO.

You have a point, what we really meant was bad luck for those who may get excluded.

Joel

[JERRY B]

Nobody will be excluded if they are pre registered
Didn't I get in trouble for talking about turning away cars /money in a previous thread

[RETII]

Wow I thought the change to new classes and the ensuing who has how many points was fun, boy this is much more fun

[Gary Burch]

This is quite the storm...my my my ...

The CDI's seem to be taking this German thing a little to seriously.

[jenniferreinhardt]

Charge the X-cars $15 extra, and have a separate top ten for them. They will be thrilled.....and continue to pay us to keep our program running.

Yes I agree, X Cars should really not be included in the top 10 and overall results, but show their times only under X-Class to not interfere with Porsche results.

[Greg Phillips]

It is ironic to hear from some members that not allowing X cars would be "Elitist." I found OCR elitist, because they DO allow SO many X cars and "BIG" SCCA champions. All I found up there was BIG attitude and way too serious competitors. It isn't just me either, I've talked to a lot of Porsche owning, OCR attendees sick of the attitude up there, who prefer to drive with SDR because of this. I don't care how "BIG" of an SCCA champ someone is or how fast they can drive if their attitude sucks! There are the cool X car people like Monte, and the not so cool other people!

Yes, as the PCA tagline says, "It's not just the cars, it's the people"

Greg

[twinturbo48]

OCR..."Elitist".... LOL, LOL, LOL

Your kidding right?

I'm OCR, and when I first met the group from SDR, I thought they full of themselves too. The same impression you have of OCR I guess.

Truth is, the OCR gang are all great people. So are the people down in SD.

I have run with them both, and have enjoyed them all.

It's Porsches. It's great people enjoying their cars, and having fun.

Lets leave it at that.

Randy

[Steve Grosekemper]

I think this is an excellent example of how important first impressions can be.

I know I thought both Randy and Marie were very nice people when I first met them but I was no where near their first SDR encounter.

I know we get busy and have lots to do at an any event, but lets try to be a little more welcoming and open minded next time we come across a newby.
I know I have seen less than welcoming attitude in SDR and other regions I have run with. But I have seen more of what we are supposed to be about.

Remember perception is reality. Make July adopt a newby month.
And not just the ones with new cars with a GT on them somewhere.

[Curt Yaws]

Steve:
Very nicely said, and a great idea.
Curt

[Cajundaddy]

I think this is an excellent example of how important first impressions can be.

I know I thought both Randy and Marie were very nice people when I first met them but I was no where near their first SDR encounter.

I know we get busy and have lots to do at an any event, but lets try to be a little more welcoming and open minded next time we come across a newby.
I know I have seen less than welcoming attitude in SDR and other regions I have run with. But I have seen more of what we are supposed to be about.

Remember perception is reality. Make july adopt a newby month.
And not just the ones with new cars with a GT on them somewhere.

Yes exactly! I know that many drivers feel a bit like they are on the outside looking in when they first start driving with any new club. Even though I had done many AX and DE with SDR over the last 6 years I definitely got that "under the microscope" feeling when I began running TTs in 2009. Being terminally shy that I am it took the welcoming arms of the Sharps, Corwins, and Trotters to bring me out of my shell

Regarding instructor supply and demand, there is a National DE training course scheduled for next weekend in Pomona. I am certain that the SDR CDIs have selected a dozen likely candidates from the vast pool of experienced drivers here to attend... If not, why not? Even drivers who may not be fully ready for instructor certification will benefit greatly from this additional training and set them on a path towards becoming a valuable asset to both PCA-SDR and all of Zone 8. Drivers who feel that they are valuable to the club make great ambassadors to new drivers.